EXP Parties as an option please!

[MageBlack]

If you want to socialize, you will find ways to socialize. This is a personal issue and not something solved via any ingame system. The only reason it sorta worked in XI is it was such a slow game in all aspects. You had time to converse as you waited for the auto attack to build up your skillchain. Even if there was an area like the dunes in FFXIV, if people are training enemies to make this method efficient for leveling purposes (which is what you guys are asking for) then when would you have time to type and talk between using skills and pulling new mobs?

This game does not lend to this and even if it did, the people that would chose this method over all other methods of leveling will not be the kinds of people you are hoping to attract. it will be like hunt parties when they were "the best method" or FATE parties when it was "the best method". I know you guys have a soft spot for the archaic methods of leveling but the landscape has changed as well as its participants. There are some really well worded posts here explaining how to do it and reasons why but they are not taking a realistic approach and have some heavily tinted glasses on.

As it's said, If you want people of a like mindset to do this, they will do it for the social aspect, not necessarily for the exp gain because that is in effect the golden egg of this system you are holding up. Just go out, find a good FC and make some friends and play together. This was a HUGE thread way early on in ARR beta and at launch, SE replied then and I don't think the stance has changed. I'm terribly sorry about your luck but to make this work as you want it to would require many fundamentals of the game to be changed to accommodate it. FFXI is still going and if this is the system you hold above all others in this game, feel free to play FFXI or hold out for EQN (if that is even still coming) or some other company to make a more hardcore style of game where this is the system of choice.

EDIT:

Going forward, I think it's perfectly reasonable to have all 3 (FATE, Dungeon DF, Open World Exp Parties). I agree that I wouldn't want to see the return of XI's Exp Parties *Only* as the means to level up.

But as *another option* / viable way to level up? Sure, why not? It's all about choices, and SE took the time to make these beautiful zones and fill it with mobs. But currently outside of FATE spawned Mobs, these zones are just "window dressing": Worthless mobs that give you a tiny bit of Exp that make them more of a hindrance than anything.

This is a prime example of not understanding how todays landscape has changed. As i mentioned earlier about Hunts, once it was decided as the "best method" EVERYONE flocked to it, not because they liked the system but because it was the "best one". Players are always seeking the path of least resistance to getting what they want regardless of the fun factor. The go so far as to google the best cookie cutter way to do something and if you do it any other way you get ridiculed for doing it wrong. I'm not one of those people but the ones that do this drive the game. I wanted to do PvP or Dungeons during that time but I could not do any of that stuff until it was nerfed. I was reduced to doing solo content. It would take so much effort to balance out exp per hour based on levels, based on speed of killing, on an average party, then one party will come along and kill the system by having a party of all WHM's (or something) where they just roam through the whole zone steamrolling everything with Holy spam. Open world content is a lot harder to regulate then you think.

[AreeyaJaidee]

Your logic, black mage, also works against the current system implemented.

You state that the social aspect is a choice, not inherent in design. However this is false in a sense and easily proven by the argument you use in defense of players doing the "best" content.

The flaw in this logic is that the "best content" doesn't inherently create social experiences by its own design at the games current state, nor does it foster a social experience. Now to make a choice in most situations a human is presented a stimulus with conditions. If the existing conditions can be done solo (everyone having all crafts at 50 for example) then the social implications are not enforced.

Yes anyone can look at a stick and RP that its a boat amidst a devastating storm, etc. But to actually insert that situation into reality rather than relying on players imagination is a different thing altogether.

[MageBlack]

Your logic, black mage, also works against the current system implemented.

You state that the social aspect is a choice, not inherent in design. However this is false in a sense and easily proven by the argument you use in defense of players doing the "best" content.

The flaw in this logic is that the "best content" doesn't inherently create social experiences by its own design at the games current state, nor does it foster a social experience. Now to make a choice in most situations a human is presented a stimulus with conditions. If the existing conditions can be done solo (everyone having all crafts at 50 for example) then the social implications are not enforced.

Yes anyone can look at a stick and RP that its a boat amidst a devastating storm, etc. But to actually insert that situation into reality rather than relying on players imagination is a different thing altogether.

Interesting way to interpret what I said. I was not in any way saying any systems are geared towards generating a social atmosphere. In fact, it looks like we agree that no content can force people to be social. That is entirely on the shoulders of the players and todays landscape of players does not lend itself to the kind of social community that was present in older games. My example of Hunts was not to show a good example of social systems at work but the opposite and to show what would happen to this system if it was implemented. If i was to hold ANY system up as a way to make people be more social it would be the FC system and all the stuff associated with that but even then, you will get lurkers and leeches. I don't think English is your first language or i am failing at communicating (most likely the latter) so I dont mind explaining things for you

If you want to socialize, you will find ways to socialize. This is a personal issue and not something solved via any ingame system. -snip- Even if there was an area like the dunes in FFXIV, people training enemies to make this method efficient for leveling purposes (which is what you guys are asking for) then when would you have time to type and talk between using skills and pulling new mobs?

-snip- [if added] it will be like hunt parties when they were "the best method" or FATE parties when it was "the best method" [turned into a hive of anger and resintment for the system because of how players chose to do it].

-snip- If you want people of a like mindset to do this, they will do it for the social aspect, not necessarily for the exp gain because that is in effect the golden egg of this system you are holding up. Just go out, find a good FC and make some friends and play together. This was a HUGE thread way early on in ARR beta and at launch, SE replied then and I don't think the stance has changed. I'm terribly sorry about your luck but to make this work as you want it to would require many fundamentals of the game to be changed to accommodate it [more than just more hp or more exp per mob].

-snip- As i mentioned earlier about Hunts, once it was decided as the "best method" EVERYONE flocked to it, not because they liked the system but because it was the "best one". Players are always seeking the path of least resistance to getting what they want regardless of the fun factor. -snip- It would take so much effort to balance out exp per hour based on levels, based on speed of killing, on an average party, then one party will come along and kill the system by having a party of all WHM's (or something equally stupid and out of the norm) where they just roam through the whole zone steamrolling everything with Holy spam. Open world content is a lot harder to regulate then you think.

[AreeyaJaidee]

snippy snip

Actually. I think reading comprehension is the culprit here. I am not in agreement with you, and my post firmly states that. (Although I believe you were actually being cynical/mocking in your post out of spite or prejudice to an opposing voice to your opinion (Which is base and uneeded).)

To simplify, FFXIV exists on the premise of a theme park as Xatsh has so nicely noted YoshiP for in her/his above post: As with anything regarding business, marketing is a largely contributing factor. Advertising is a good example of what I am referencing in defence to your stance on game content. Advertising knows very well what it takes to sell someone something for X price and make them like it or believe they liked spending their money on it. An MMO is no different.

Now let's add those two analogies together, a theme park and marketing/advertising:

FFXIV serves main attractions/themes to its player base. Some players are not asking for those rides to be torn down, rather more interesting concession stands to be added alongside the main attractions. Concession stands with appetizing food, which will make them feel like they have spent their time/money in an appropriate way. Now let's broaden that concession stand into the form of what is being requested in this thread. Instead of merely a concession stand, some ppl want a restaurant, complete with more options and a nice theme which enhances the social aspect of dining. <--- Dining can be done solo, however, incorporating elements that allow strangers to socialize over a meal, is more appealing to some than others.

This is the premise of EXP Camps. Players want the freedom to use the landscape in an adventurous way instead of viewing it as some static landscape with inherited functional yet unused aspects. They want to feel "alive" due to braving "danger" when journeying from one point of interest to another. Such an element creates its own meta game if implemented correctly.

So I do NOT agree that social engagement is purely on the players. I am of the opinion that it is more so a combination of content with the correct advertisement/mechanics which allow/enforce social interactions. As in commercialism, it is by design. We humans are simple in some things, and our attraction to entertainment devices are one of those areas in which we are easily attracted to if the design is very well done/thought out.

[MageBlack]

-snip-

I see. Can you picture a exp grind party in FFXIV? When would you have an opportunity to talk with a 3sec global cooldown if you wish to maintain exp gain at a consistent rate?

I'm not against EXP grind parties, I just dont see them fostering an environment that will lend itself to social exchange. What I am worried about is players abusing the system (like they do with any other system they find loopholes in) taking away from the enjoyment of other content. The other rides in FFXIV are controlled and easy to adjust, open world free for all is a bit trickier.

EDIT:
Also, I do now understand better what you were trying to say about systems and social aspects. You are correct that it is not entirely on the players to do this, they do need an avenue that allows people to be social. Like the FC, Linkpearl, and Party Finder systems. These are great for social networking in game. i also get that lots of people dont bother talking or become abusive in dungeons because of the fact you will probably never see them again. It hasnt stopped me from being social in dungeons, cracking wise, and communicating with my fellow adventurers. Sometimes it is sad that I cant group up with them outside the dungeon or do more dungeon runs with them but I like this system rather than having queue times even longer cause they are strictly server based. If i want that, i can create a party finder party for this purpose.

[AreeyaJaidee]

snip.

Do I picture it? Yes I do. What else do I picture? The reality that there is time between pulls and surely some ppl will want to pace things or take breaks. Also, many players use VoIP and are more than happy to let strangers hop into a temporary voice chat just to grind out exp if the want arises.

Loop holes? Worry? <- A theme park exists with many rides, because ppl like choice. You can't just oppose the addition of future rides because you personally love your Super Slide Mega Ride of Doom. LMAO (tangent there, sorry).

Main Story cements dungeons. Relics cement dungeons, fates, and leves, and hunts(kinda for seals). There are game elements in place that make all content required. EXP camp can in no way detract from these or make them irrelevant because they are all REQUIRED to complete the story Arch and Relic progression. I mean if were going to go this route this lets take the golden saucer out of FFXIV since its not essential to main story elements and detracts from DF Que times.

What some people are saying is that leveling in DF and Fates and Leves is bullshit. It's crap, all of it in my personal opinion. If I wanna level then I don't care about dungeon mechanics when I'm leveling. I care about leveling.

So the next logical question is, how does this effect skill advancement amongst the community? I can tell you one thing from personal experience of running ALOT of content for relic/zodiac weapons... dungeons are NOT making better players, nor better skilled players. You can faceroll Brayflox Longstop and Aurum Vale ALL DAY if you want, and still wipe like a newbcake on T5.

However, IT IS possible to make mobs more engaging with the right AI. All you need to practice a rotation is a mob to hit with AoEs to dodge. That's about the same amount of learning you will get in all these derpy dungeons ppl are having to spam.

People already have implemented a form of EXP camping IN dungeons via PF: Darkhold first room pulls. (This is what people want, EXP at a pace they decide).

People want more open world. Players of previous MMOs all came from a Open World environment, it's what we know and love/hate.

[MageBlack]

-snip-

I'm not against it, just bringing a different perspective to the conversation. Sorry if i seem aggressive, angry, or completely against it, that is not the case. I just foresee more issues than solutions with this. That and the director of the game said they werent going to do it and this horse has already been beaten to death many times over. Good luck in your fight for this system though.

[Maikal]

Snip!(But all still very relevant!)
So I do NOT agree that social engagement is purely on the players. I am of the opinion that it is more so a combination of content with the correct advertisement/mechanics which allow/enforce social interactions.

So much this.