[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

[Demacia]

Nothing is perfect. Once it is changed, it will still be imperfect. when it is changed again, it will still be imperfect. And each time there will be a new crowd, and often some from the last, complaining about it.

That I can agree with, but it doesn't mean we should settle for a half-assed system left behind by a terrible dev team.

[Reika]

Tweaks and improvements yes. Changing it back into Job/Subjob (which is why i made the "like other MMO's comment), No.

[Demacia]

Tweaks and improvements yes. Changing it back into Job/Subjob (which is why i made the "like other MMO's comment), No.

It would be an improvement over what we have now, but I do think they should do something completely different. That's what everyone hoped for at first, something completely different from FFXI. Now that people noticed it's all a huge step backwards from FFXI I don't blame them for wanting all the old stuff back. Either way, I hope this new dev team makes the game fun, regardless of whether they reuse old systems or bring in some entirely new (and good) ones.

[Reika]

There are only a few things that are a step back from FFXI, content being the obvious one. I don't think the current system is a step back at all. I am all in favor of the dev's making the system as new as they like with any unique features they intend to add or tweak.

Change is good, Change in the reverse direction tho is bad. I am not for preventing the invention of new ideas. New ideas is how the world keeps turning. Real and fantasy.

[Demacia]

There are only a few things that are a step back from FFXI, content being the obvious one. I don't think the current system is a step back at all. I am all in favor of the dev's making the system as new as they like with any unique features they intend to add or tweak.

Change is good, Change in the reverse direction tho is bad. I am not for preventing the invention of new ideas. New ideas is how the world keeps turning. Real and fantasy.

Honestly, every single thing in the game save for the graphics, character creation, and lack of playonline is a step backwards from FFXI or even Everquest. It wouldn't be change in the reverse direction because it's like releasing a pretty VHS player in 2010 and people say "Man, why did they do this when their DVD player in 2004 was so much better?". I don't even want to hear people say "It's a new game give it more time" anymore, they should have known better. I am in favor of new and unique ideas, but not when they are poorly thought out and flawed to the very core.

[Mr_Gyactus]

Honestly, every single thing in the game save for the graphics, character creation, and lack of playonline is a step backwards from FFXI or even Everquest. It wouldn't be change in the reverse direction because it's like releasing a pretty VHS player in 2010 and people say "Man, why did they do this when their DVD player in 2004 was so much better?". I don't even want to hear people say "It's a new game give it more time" anymore, they should have known better. I am in favor of new and unique ideas, but not when they are poorly thought out and flawed to the very core.

A Personal opinion.

In my opinion, the armory system is broken, but it can be fixed and be efficient.
Ok, we need an idea, I post my idea.

I think the problem is "we can equip too many skills".

We can decide to give a max number of points, let's say 250-300 at rank 50 (5-6point for rank).

Every skill has a cost, the cost is the level of the skill. For example Cure II costs 20 points.
If I want to equip Cure II and I'm a conjurer, I spend 20 points.

If I'm playing as.. a gladiator for example, I can still equip cure II, but it'll cost more, let's say 40 points.

Cure III will cost 48/250 points if I'm a conjurer, 96/250 for a gladiator.

Now I let maths and balance to others, but what does happen with this system?

250/50 =5 point for level so a gladiator can equip Cure II (and only that) when he is level 8.

Equip low level skill is still easy, but the highest skills will be expensive.

Of course SE has to balance skills and their level.

As I already written this is just a first draft. what do you think?

[Reika]

A Personal opinion.

In my opinion, the armory system is broken, but it can be fixed and be efficient.
Ok, we need an idea, I post my idea.

I think the problem is "we can equip too many skills".

We can decide to give a max number of points, let's say 250-300 at rank 50 (5-6point for rank).

Every skill has a cost, the cost is the level of the skill. For example Cure II costs 20 points.
If I want to equip Cure II and I'm a conjurer, I spend 20 points.

If I'm playing as.. a gladiator for example, I can still equip cure II, but it'll cost more, let's say 40 points.

Cure III will cost 48/250 points if I'm a conjurer, 96/250 for a gladiator.

Now I let maths and balance to others, but what does happen with this system?

250/50 =5 point for level so a gladiator can equip Cure II (and only that) when he is level 8.

Equip low level skill is still easy, but the highest skills will be expensive.

Of course SE has to balance skills and their level.

As I already written this is just a first draft. what do you think?

Skills already have a cost to equip... its the AC system. and you have a limited number. 64 at r50. All the above did was make bigger numbers. And it will serve to damage roles even further, because you need skills from various other classes to be a good tank. With that math, you would only be able to equip maybe 2 or 3 skills at r50....

[Mr_Gyactus]

3 points per skill is nothing.
64 AP are too much.
this is the point, we don't need to choose, we can take everything.

Do you prefer 3 lev 50 skills from another job or 6 lev 50 from your Armory? or 1 from another and 4 from your armor?

I have written 2 or 3 times, numbers are for example.

[Reika]

"In a world where you only know how to do 6 things..... In a place where you wished you could do more....."

"One man, Six spells. And only he can save us all"
*Exciting backround music*
"OMG It's CASTING! RUN AWAY!"
*Explosion*
"Coming this fall.... Our time in Eorzia will change... and we will all be bored to death"
*DA DA DA... DA DA*

[Mr_Gyactus]

"In a world where you only know how to do 6 things..... In a place where you wished you could do more....."

"One man, Six spells. And only he can save us all"
*Exciting backround music*
"OMG It's CASTING! RUN AWAY!"
*Explosion*
"Coming this fall.... Our time in Eorzia will change... and we will all be bored to death"
*DA DA DA... DA DA*

In a MMO game where you play alone this summer...
Really, probably I have some issue trying to communicate but...

Anyway, I use 5 skills and some CD in WoW, I use 10 skills in LOTRO, I use 5-6 skills in DDO, I used 3-4 skills in Ragnarok online, I use 4-5 skills in ultima online, I use 8 skill in DC, I use 4-5 skills in Rift. Do I need to continue?

More skill spam doesn't mean more fun, or this game was successful. Moreover, as results from the combat poll, players suffer for skill spam.
The first step is autoattack. Do I like? not really, but the 1,1,1,1 spamfest is worse.
I take it as a little scar from a big plague.

We need to lower skillspam, be able to equip what we really need in a fight possibly in one bar (because two/three full bars of actions are difficult to manage for a gamepad), and give more uniqueness to classes.
This does not mean you can do it with a simple modify, SE has to think where skills are, how these work, how these can be connected and others.