[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

[Kimahri]

Well said. +1

This one is not directed to Reika. This one is directed to the moderator's of this forum. If you're going to edit my own posts because it didn't relate to the topic, then can you please remove these two worded posts that say absolutely nothing to pursue this topic? Come on.....

Are you guys serious? Every class had several viable subjobs for many different situations. Nobody would want a SAM/SMN because that's garbage and makes no sense, but SAM/WAR SAM/THF SAM/RNG SAM/NIN SAM/DRG and SAM/DNC were all great and each gave Samurai a completely different playstyle. Would you want a CON who insisted on tanking or have him cure/nuke instead?

What Demecia is trying to say here is that there were plenty of different sub jobs to choose from to complete certain obstacles. For solo work on Samurai(Or Monk) I would use SAM/DNC(Or MNK/DNC). With their rate of TP gain it was the best possible sub job to allow me to farm at my maximum performance with little to no downtime on resting. Every job could've been used as a sub job on every class, but it wasn't because it did little to nothing to improve your results and hence became useless.

You can not say that the community shunned people for choosing war/smn because they didn't. It was the people who used common sense over which jobs were considered proper. The only time you seen people sub the wrong job was when they were either new to the game and didn't know of the best possible combinations, or made an error when selecting a sub or forgot to change subs. I remember going to sky as sam/blm because I changed to /blm to warp from Bastok to Aht Urhgan. Arcell if you ever played long enough to be in endgame, you never once seen anyone trying to get into a linkshell as a rng/smn. Using this as a counter-argument in your rebutal is like me trying to talk about WoW or Rift. I haven't played them long enough to comment on it, so I don't.

Well the purpose of a subjob was to either boost your main job's strength, compensate for its weakness, or use its strengths to change its role in a group. It wasn't meant to be used to do everything you want in one package but even though a damage dealing class class was always gonna be a DD, you could switch to THF sub and focus on enmity control/burst damage, switch to DNC sub to focus on TP fueled healing, or switch to WAR sub for pure damage and emergency provokes. Every MMO has roles that need to be filled. It's a group effort. Of course, if you had a job combination that doesn't help the group, why would they want you?

FFXIV is no different in that sense. The only difference is that instead of having a collection of -UNIQUE- jobs that can each fill several roles in a group by using different subjobs, you have a few DDs whose only difference is the weapon they use (save for a handful of class specific abilities), mages with no defined roles, and one standard tank. You aren't gonna see tanking archers, main healing gladiators, or melee DD mages (they can't even do that if they wanted to because everyone is bound to using one weapon). You would shun any one of those just like an FFXI player would shun a BLM/MNK.

This also is a great example by Demecia regarding his opinion.

Currently there are 3 roles mages can fill: Support, Damage and Enfeeblement.

This one is from Arcell. Now I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong. You're right, but right now there is little to few differences to which one of these roles either of the two can perform adamantly. There might be a slight difference, but as far as performing roles? Why have two different classes if they can both perform them with only slight consequences? This should be simple. Everything in life has a role to do. A Pikeman in a mid-evil army couldn't fire an arrow while halting the onslaught of the calvary riders.

Each one of the three examples you said; Support, Damage, Enfeeblement. They're all different roles. That's why you seen three different jobs in XI.

Support: White Mage
Damage: Black Mage
Enfeeblement: Red Mage

I said before that I didn't want the sub job system to be implemented back into the game, but with the way you completely disregard anything that supports class restrictions to make a character feel more unique.......I'm going to go ahead and say bring back the sub job feature. If you will not admit that abilities could be revisions to stop the overpowering of it's role from others, then yes I want a FFXI-2. This isn't a single-player experience. I'm/We're not asking for a complete overhaul of everything. Just some things to be re-evaluated.

You say you want Intimidation to be accessed by your Pugilist? Sub Job system. You want that Archer ability that I'm not going to scroll up to find? Sub Job system. If you don't want the sub job system, then let SE do their job so they can establish a bigger crowd base to play the game together. Everyone is going to make some sacrifices, so don't feel like you're the only one getting the shaft. I'm sure they're going to implement something I'd rather not care for.

P.S. By the way, Reika. I'm currently one of the many who not only play FFXIV right now, but still FFXI. How about you be quiet about telling people what to do when you've absolutely nothing to talk about? You going to tell me to go back to FF7 because I didn't like the storyline of FF8? Too bad, so sad.

[LillithaFenimore]

Kimahri,

See, I told you I wasn't the only one who was enjoying the AS. :P