[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

[yukikaze_yanagi]

and how the current sistem is qualified as "not having weakness"? As conjurer, you can't turn in a thaumaturge, even if you equip all his spells
And a mage character don't really have any melee capacity, even if you equip all marauder skills :||

[Abraxai]

I think SE should branch Specialized classes from the current classes.. Gladiator to Paladin, or Warrior, or whatever, and make only certain abilities within its skillset to be equippable, and this would also limit the abilities equippable by other classes.

For example:

A Marauder could be specialized for being a Dark Knight, and this would make Bio, Poison, and low-tier Nukes equippable, but NOT Cure and Enhancement spells.

^
That's an example. I'm aware Marauder isn't DRK :P

[Kimahri]

All hail super cheat characters. Where there's no weaknesses and losing once means being able to immediately adapt on the fly.

We are the Borg, resistance is futile.

In the end it's opposing theories. You can't have a magical change character and still retain the dignity of fighting "fair"

To this one.....Hahaha! I love it!

Now. To LillithaFenimore. That's great that you loved Elder Scrolls. This is not a one-player RPG, however. This is a MMORPG. What works for the RPG's based off a single person's experience should not be tried in an MMO. If everyone was gained access to all abilities then down the line you wouldn't be as unique as the other person because he'd have the same setup as you. If you had played XI then you would know what I'm talking about.

Like most MMO games, people work together to accomplish a goal. As stated above, if you'd played XI you would know what I'm going to say next. I don't care how freely you think this game is, it'll come down to you having to pick certain abilities rather than the one's you want if you want anything in the end. Let's use the endgame scene of FFXI's Sky. Simple, easy, yet still you had to use certain sub jobs on the job you used. You never seen a war/whm, why? Because people of the norm rejected your reality of fun. It was a pointless setup to help others.

Point is that people really don't care what you want to use. In the end it'll come down to what you NEED to use rather than what you WANT to use. This current system doesn't help people who want to use a certain class to be unique from the other classes. You'll probably see Gladiator, in the end, as the number one DoW class with the same exact abilities as your own. At least in FFXI when I chose Samurai, I was completely different from the other jobs.......Even though there were a couple other people with Samurai in the game, they weren't exactly like me. Our gear was different, our merits were alligned to other traits, and we used different systems of strategy.

This is not "Freedom" like many of you think. True freedom of choosing a class was from FFXI's approach. I don't want to be a Red Mage, so why do I have to level it to obtain those abilities for you and your endgame? Kiss my rosey red cheeks, I want to do what I want to do. Not do it as you.

[Arcell]

With the current system there is more of a grey area for good and bad builds. There is more freedom in what you do with your class. There will always be cookie-cutter builds but you can deviate from them and not completely suck with the current system.

Personally when I play Pugilist it is completely different from how I play Marauder, and that's different from how I play Gladiator. Then again I try to use most of a class's native skills as possible as those are meant for that class. Marauder has a lot of conal AoE attacks, Pugilist is more of a one-on-one fighter and Gladiator is decidedly a tank class not to mention the Sentinel abilities that make it unique in its own right.

There is freedom but I think the problem is that people currently have too much freedom. It is overwhelming and most aren't really sure what they should be doing. I can understand that but I'm still against a job/subjob system as I feel that's too restrictive. Make some more abilities class specific or add a slightly larger penalty for cross-class abilities.

[Dreamer]

It's kind of sad, really. We finally have an MMO that gives us some actual freedom in designing our character and people are so flabbergasted by the idea that they start yelling for restrictions.

[LillithaFenimore]

To this one.....Hahaha! I love it!

Now. To LillithaFenimore. That's great that you loved Elder Scrolls. This is not a one-player RPG, however. This is a MMORPG. What works for the RPG's based off a single person's experience should not be tried in an MMO. If everyone was gained access to all abilities then down the line you wouldn't be as unique as the other person because he'd have the same setup as you. If you had played XI then you would know what I'm talking about.

Like most MMO games, people work together to accomplish a goal. As stated above, if you'd played XI you would know what I'm going to say next. I don't care how freely you think this game is, it'll come down to you having to pick certain abilities rather than the one's you want if you want anything in the end. Let's use the endgame scene of FFXI's Sky. Simple, easy, yet still you had to use certain sub jobs on the job you used. You never seen a war/whm, why? Because people of the norm rejected your reality of fun. It was a pointless setup to help others.

Point is that people really don't care what you want to use. In the end it'll come down to what you NEED to use rather than what you WANT to use. This current system doesn't help people who want to use a certain class to be unique from the other classes. You'll probably see Gladiator, in the end, as the number one DoW class with the same exact abilities as your own. At least in FFXI when I chose Samurai, I was completely different from the other jobs.......Even though there were a couple other people with Samurai in the game, they weren't exactly like me. Our gear was different, our merits were alligned to other traits, and we used different systems of strategy.

This is not "Freedom" like many of you think. True freedom of choosing a class was from FFXI's approach. I don't want to be a Red Mage, so why do I have to level it to obtain those abilities for you and your endgame? Kiss my rosey red cheeks, I want to do what I want to do. Not do it as you.

Well the thing is I don't seem to be alone in the way I feel about the currect system of picking and chosing abilities. There seem to be many who feel the same as I do or some sort of varient of my feelings toward the armory system. Many people do play this game for FUN, whatever that definition is to that person. It seems like this game is offering that for many people, including myself.

[Rhomagus]

Fact: A Marauder shouldn't have MP to use for Cure, Protect, Shell, etc.

Fact: A Pugilist shouldn't be able to use weaponskill's from another class whose weaponskills base off being slashing or piercing when their weapons are blunt based.

Fact: The current system needs drastic changes to improve upon so a much more pleased crowd can be obtained. (I believe ~80% approved in the questionaire?)

False: This game is better than FFXI in terms of being unique to a certain degree.

You can not be unique if you have a hall pass to every ability with minimal consequences.

You realize that none of those points are facts, your false is not false, and not everyone has or will have access to all abilities.

Despite there being thousands of people with Maat's Cap out there, that is still a niche accomplishment. How long did it take those people to accomplish that? How long will it take people to accomplish getting all the jobs to the new level cap? What happens when another job is introduced? The only "fact" is that not everyone will have a "hall pass" to every ability out there.

You create a false comparison between XI and XIV when you're critical of XIV's community of expecting certain abilities to be equipped. You fail to see that XI's community did the same thing.

-Melee's with /NIN
-RDM being forced to heal and refresh
-LVL75XXX/LVL35XXX(or lower) shunned regardless of minute differences or viability.
-Sneak and Invis or else

XIV may develop it's social norms, in due time, but it's a moot point to say that XI is somehow superior for it's social norms because it puts more restrictions on you.

Also, please do not assert things as fact when they are not. It serves no purpose for anyone, and only hinders your proposal.

[Zenaku]

I think SE should branch Specialized classes from the current classes.. Gladiator to Paladin, or Warrior, or whatever, and make only certain abilities within its skillset to be equippable, and this would also limit the abilities equippable by other classes.

For example:

A Marauder could be specialized for being a Dark Knight, and this would make Bio, Poison, and low-tier Nukes equippable, but NOT Cure and Enhancement spells.

^
That's an example. I'm aware Marauder isn't DRK :P

That what they going to do in the up coming patchs

it be two system

Rise your monk to 50 and unlock Monk by doing a quest

or

Rise your monk to a point and pick a tree pug can become "monk,???,???" but they say it be diff from wow.

i think i go with the first one it can add more quest and more storyline to the game.

[Malakhim]

[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

This isn't Final Fantasy XI, that's what's wrong. To be fair I'm sure you meant to post in the FFXI forums. These are the FFXIV forums.

On a more serious note, Final Fantasy has never had the exact same systems in any of their games, and FFXIV is no different. THIS is an actual fact. Subjobs have been done already, time to move on.

I'm loathe to fall back on such a dumb argument, but if you want subjobs, keep playing FFXI. That's kind of one of the other reasons they made the game different, so that people wouldn't be playing the same game twice.

[Arcell]

Fact: A Pugilist shouldn't be able to use weaponskill's from another class whose weaponskills base off being slashing or piercing when their weapons are blunt based.

Technically Pugilists do have access to slashing and piercing weapons. Cesti do piercing damage back of the spikes that line the weapon and Baghnakhs do slashing damage because they're claws. Because of that, that is then not a fact.