[dev 1032] What's wrong with job/subjob again?

[Dreamer]

Ideas that sounds nice, sometime run into something call the real world. Hindsight is a biach. It doesn't work. reason have been long and heavy in the specifics.

If you don't understand it, you don't want to understand.

If you're going to go through the trouble of responding to my post, you could at least show the courtesy of countering with a solid response, rather than a handful of loosely joined sentences that simply insult me, yet don't actually say anything about the matter at hand.

[Mr_Gyactus]

If the problem was only Mage vs melee, it's solved. SE has stated

6. In addition to enhancing class differentiation with essential attributes and distinct appearances, we are also looking into introducing class and rank requirements for equipping gear...

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

So, if they modify stats from:
1. healing/damage = 80% from skill 20% from stats

to
2. healing/damage = 30% from skill 70% from stats

we can still equip Cure III with a melee, but without stats, does it worth?

This does not change anything with melee (pugilist, a gladiator, a lancer, marauder) and archers too, for obvious reasons.

[AeriousEldrin]

Personally, I like the job/sub job system. FFXI was my favorite MMO of all the ones I've played.

But, the situation we are in is this:

This game is dying.

This is not the same MMO business world that it was 10 years ago. There are tons of choices for people to play. "Making something new" if fine for other MMOs, but not this one. If you want to save this game you have to appeal to the things that make your game unique in its branding, and existing fan base. This is not a console game with a predicted 100 hours of game play. This is an MMO. To reinvent yourself each time is a bad choice. The only thing that will save this game is to grab onto the things that are dear to players. Chocobos, Moogles, Airships, and (the relavent part to this thread) original FF1/FFXI classes. Final Fantasy's place in the MMO relm has been set. Don't worry about making it "X like World of Warcraft", or "Y like EQ2". Focus on the things that keep people playing, and making money. If this is not done, this game will die. It does not stand out in the current sea of MMOs, and it will be washed away and forgotten by the waves of new games (Tera, Old Republic, etc. etc.). The original design of this game was poor. It is like having The Old Republic without lightsabers. Fix it, and fix it fast or this game is over.

[Arcell]

Honestly though, FFXIV does stand out in the sea of MMOs. To me at least, FFXIV is one of the most unique MMOs I've ever played. When I play the game I don't think it feels like any other game and I like that. Now that's not to say that we shouldn't implement ideas from other games that are good however I think job/subjob is not one of those systems.

What we have right now gives too much freedom though I think job/subjob is too restrictive. As other people have been mentioning, a decent fix is just a bit more restriction on the current system. Add a bit more of a cross-class penalty either for the use of the skill or for the action point cost. Make some more skills restricted to classes.

The biggest thing we're missing though, as with the auto-attack discussion, is that we don't know what the new battle system is going to be. We simply don't know anything about it and that means we can't really have a tremendously meaningful discussion about it. Whatever it is though, I have faith in the new team and I'm sure they'll pull off something great. They've honestly not really disappointed me yet.

[kukurumei]

Honestly though, FFXIV does stand out in the sea of MMOs. To me at least, FFXIV is one of the most unique MMOs I've ever played. When I play the game I don't think it feels like any other game and I like that. Now that's not to say that we shouldn't implement ideas from other games that are good however I think job/subjob is not one of those systems.

What we have right now gives too much freedom though I think job/subjob is too restrictive. As other people have been mentioning, a decent fix is just a bit more restriction on the current system. Add a bit more of a cross-class penalty either for the use of the skill or for the action point cost. Make some more skills restricted to classes.

The biggest thing we're missing though, as with the auto-attack discussion, is that we don't know what the new battle system is going to be. We simply don't know anything about it and that means we can't really have a tremendously meaningful discussion about it. Whatever it is though, I have faith in the new team and I'm sure they'll pull off something great. They've honestly not really disappointed me yet.

Certainly a team with the goal of "saving" the Game is different from a team for "Creating" the game.

Like everything else, you look at your own habits differently if you're on the edge of eviction. The role of Yoshi-P here is going to be crucial. Nothing is going to escape his eye, because he can't afford to loosen the leash for anyone.

[Chromeo_El_Lobo]

My biggest complaint about Subjobs?

/NIN.

[HunkaMunka]

OMGLMAO /NIN EVERYTHING /NIN NIN/NIN if you don't have NIN/NIN you're useless!

Sorry about that, momentary flashback.

On a lighter note...

Why don't we wait and see what SE has in store for us as far as the new battle system and advanced jobs before we totally rampage on how the job system makes us want to cry, and here's-how-I-would-have-done-it-better them to death?

[Technyze]

It seems like the current system will make it hard for SE to introduce challenging and strategic content, it definitely needs more limitations I think.

[RobotRivers]

The current system is fine, the current system has attracted the players who DID NOT like FFXI's system while maintaining the FFXI players as well. It doesn't need to change.

EDIT: Dreamer's right... you completely ignored her post and instead just sounded like an ass.

[Kazimir]

The current system is fine, the current system has attracted the players who DID NOT like FFXI's system while maintaining the FFXI players as well. It doesn't need to change.

EDIT: Dreamer's right... you completely ignored her post and instead just sounded like an ass.

It attracted people that promptly left the game. Not saying we should take on the Job/SJ system because I think XIV's should be it's own unique system, but the current armoury system is certainly not fine. Maybe for you it is, but they need to cater to the majority populace, and as polls have indicated the majority does not like it the way it is now. Probably due to the fact that it seems most people still playing are previous FFXI fans that are keeping hope for the game.

If they keep the current system I personally feel it needs more limitations. I'm not really too sure what the answer would be. Some ideas I've had are to limit the abilities you can take to a certain optimal rank, make it so you can only use a small number of abilities from other classes, make it so a lot more abilities are class specific, or make it so you can only use abilities from 1 class at a time. Some of these will make it SJ-ish but with a more unique and customizable twist.

Another suggestion would be just to increase the effect affinity has on cross-class abilities, because at the moment it's rather weak, especially if it is between DoM and DoW alike classes, and make the affinity boosting traits a little less beneficial. It's not really an idea I personally like but it's an idea.