I'm confused about Yoshi-P's thoughts on dps-check programs.

[BreathlessTao]

Indeed, the way people go about treating each other gets way too awful in certain duties anyway, even without a parser. Imagine if you saw people's data, it would just help focus attacks on specific members. I do believe that most people know if they're doing enough damage or healing or hold enmity well enough or not. They probably are aware of how they could get better, and try to as well - but they do need practice, it won't get better in the blink of an eye. (And those who aren't aware would probably be hopeless, even with a parser - or maybe they just don't care enough at all, which of course is subject for an entire separate discussion.)

Personally, as I mostly go as DPS (sometimes even when I don't), if I see that the damage is not enough, as it happened with Odin too many times - I just say "we aren't doing enough damage". I include myself in that, even if I suspect I'm doing well enough...for all I know, I might not be. But I don't isolate myself from such statements, as it is a team effort. Even if it's clearly visible to everyone it's because of one specific person. I do believe it takes the edge away, at least somewhat, as opposed to something like "you're doing it wrong". I don't think the atmosphere's ever turned negative when I was the first to call it and did it like that; perhaps it really a minor thing, idk. But maybe worth considering.



(REMOVE THE BLOODY CHARACTER LIMIT ALREADY, FOR SANITY'S SAKE!)

[Delsus]

A parser as we know them (listing every player and showing each one's DPS, HPS etc) make people jerks watch the DFs "xxx DPS or kick" (also that would be way above what is needed for any dps checks) or "Hey DRG Stop sucking your DPS was only xxx, why do you suck so much" I have seen it before whilst parsers are basically banned, imagine if it's like that when every PC player is using them.

Now saying that I aren't 100% against parsers, one that would work for self improvement without turning the entire community into jerks would be at the end of a fight to show the highest dps in the fight, and your own personal dps, this would show individuals that they are subpar and allow them to improve if needed, it could even show the lowest or even average dps through the fight. These would allow self improvement whilst preventing the jerks who just use them to put people down.

[MirielleLavandre]

I believe that people can already tell who is doing good or mediocre dps without a parser either by watching how fast mobs die, how many times a dps dies, or even the aggro table (to a lesser degree). I started the game on a JPN server and am Asian myself, and can say that some of the issues here are more NA related. I'm not saying JPN are 'more polite', but I do know that most would never publically call out any other member of a party or alliance for poor dps -- that would just be disgraceful and a huge breach of politeness. Most likely the person blaming would be ignored or shunned for being so crass. Then again, many people practice in PF so they are good enough to not be a detriment to the random people they will meet in DF and bring the whole team down. It is a matter of people taking responsibility for their own performance prior to playing with random strangers and possibly hurting that group.

I'm all for personal dps meters -- as this would help people improve on their own // party or public parsers, I think, would hurt the community, especially here. Again, it is just a difference in cultures I'm referring to - I know plenty of JPN who bash 'mediocre' players in FC/LS chat and on boards -- but never (usually) directly in the game. I do wish the same could be said across all data centers ^^

[Fumijj_Gah]

Parser is a must in every MMORPGs end game contents. What Yoshi-P says is irrelevant, he obviously does it in order to please the large amount of plebs/suckers playing FFXIV so far.

[Catwho]

I think XIV could easily attach a bare bones parser to the striking dummies. That way it can be treated as a measuring tool in-game for your personal performance, and you only need to compare it with others if you choose to share it. Sure, it's not a "real world" measure of how any given player will perform in a fight, but it would allow us to have an official performance measure for things like accuracy.

Hell, you could make it match in game lore by having it be a creation of the Ironworks. "Ironworks Training Dummy" and you can adjust the parameters and level of it. Put a timer and 20,000 "HP" on it, and see how long it takes you to pummel it down. And it spits out your accuracy, your damage per second, and your final time.

[Delsus]

Parser is a must in every MMORPGs end game contents. What Yoshi-P says is irrelevant, he obviously does it in order to please the large amount of plebs/suckers playing FFXIV so far.

And you are the kind of person who should never be allowed a parser, I can guarantee from your comment that you would be the one calling people out in party and alliance chat for no reason but to put people down. If anything people who need a parser suck more because they seem to be incapable of working out whether they are doing a good job or not.

[AdamFyi]

If anything people who need a parser suck more because they seem to be incapable of working out whether they are doing a good job or not.

You fell for the obvious bait, mate.

Being able to see your performance is a handy tool to have. Most end game progression groups use it because it is helpful and in turn can help them to improve even further - not because they are terrible at their job.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I never understood why people have a raging...passion for parsers in a game where it'd only be useful in the coil and not needed everywhere else.

[Malevicton]

The only thing that confuses me is why people think parsers would cause new elitism. Imo it would just change the language slightly. The stereotypical condescending elitist would go from "omg filthy scrub your dps is garbage gtfo" to "omg scrub your dps was under 150 gtfo." Effectively they're the same sentence, being said by the same person for the same things at the same time, so does it really matter which one of them is bannable and which one isn't? I really don't think the people who don't care about dps now would suddenly become raging elitists. The social atmosphere would be largely unchanged. It's also not as though allowing parsers means allowing harassment. If someone's being a jerk now, you can report them for it. I imagine that would stay the same. Same essential argument for the "PF will be flooded with 'xx minimum dps or kick.'" News flash: the groups that want to impose dps requirements already do. They just either don't tell you, or will only tell you over voice chat. So again, that's not actually a new problem, just a language adjustment.

[RiceisNice]

...

Outside of Coils, I personally would not want to carry someone who can't pull higher than darklight-BiS overall damage in a primal farm party (specifically titan). Though at that point, you wouldn't even need a parser because they have to be playing their job completely off the radar to perform that badly to slow down the party; I'm talking turmult on phase 1, three table flips in phase 2, or a phase reset on last phase...with 5 dps.

I normally would not mind it when it came to learning content or DF, but I do have some standards and bars set when it comes to making my own farming party or in some cases, a clear party.

That being said though, SE honestly cant do much about the toxicity in the playerbase, and I feel that its a really really weak excuse, esp when they don't want to get involved with player-disputes when it comes to DF kicks.