I'm confused about Yoshi-P's thoughts on dps-check programs.

[Fyce]

So in a summary:
- Dps program that the player can only see their own preformance = YES
- Dps Program that other players can see your preformance = NO

If DPS are never put directly in the light when they are performing badly, like Tanks and Healers already are, then they will never feel the urge to improve themselves, even if they can see their own DPS.
Why would they if they can always get away with it anyway? For personal satisfaction? Not a chance... Especially if nobody else can see it.

If people can't compare themselves to others, they will have no reason to step up their game.

[Laerune]

If DPS are never put directly in the light when they are performing badly, like Tanks and Healers already are, then they will never feel the urge to improve themselves, even if they can see their own DPS.
Why would they if they can always get away with it anyway? For personal satisfaction? Not a chance... Especially if nobody else can see it.

If people can't compare themselves to others, they will have no reason to step up their game.

If they dont care about their own dps even after seeing it on their personal parser, I dont see how someone else calling it out on them, will change it. Those of type of gamers will only increase their own dps, if they want it and if they dont then nothing will change.

[KisaiTenshi]

What I would approve of/endorse would be a "report card" when the dungeon completes and auto-saves to the hard drive.

eg

DUTY COMPLETE - DUNGEON NAME
X | ROLE | DAMAGE % | DMG | CRIT DMG GIVEN | DMG TAKEN % | DAMAGE TAKEN | HEAL % | HEAL GIVEN (OH) |KO | REV | ROLE GRADE
You | DPS | 25 % | 25000 | 6000 | 18 % | 18000 | 0 % | 0 | 0 | 0 | B
WAR | TANK | 11 % | 11000 | 2000 | 45 % | 45000 | 8 % | 8000 | 0 | 0 | A
WHM | HEAL | 8% | 8000 | 600 | 10 % | 10000 | 92 % | 92000 (2000) | 0 | 0 | A
BARD | DPS | 44 % | 44000 | 12000 | 27 % | 27000 | 0 % | 0 | 0 | 0 | A

The grade at the end just ranks the Role. eg if the WHM does more damage than both DPS, the DPS get a C. If a DPS or Tank is healing more than the Healer then the healer loses a grade. The entire point is to point out who is being "carried". If players are added/removed then their damage is prorated against the remaining combat.

Obvious problems:
BRD's have support skills, TP and MP recovery counts for what?
Healers are graded by HP recovered, but players may heal themselves.
Tanks are graded by Damage taken, but that may just encourage them to stand in every AOE
DPS are graded by Damage given, but both Tanks and Healers can hand out Damage.
SMN/SCH's fairies are considered a pet, and are graded separately as separate characters.

All things considered equal. Healers than end up tanking because the Tank dies, thus skewing the healers grade and lowering the Tanks grade. DPS that aren't contributing more than the Tank and Healer combined, lose a grade. Tanks would really need to be graded on enmity , but there's no way to really determine if the tank is just being awful, or the DPS/Healers are causing the Enmity loss on purpose.

[Fyce]

If they dont care about their own dps even after seeing it on their personal parser, I dont see how someone else calling it out on them, will change it. Those of type of gamers will only increase their own dps, if they want it and if they dont then nothing will change.

They will if they keep getting booted out from dungeons for performing very badly... like Tanks and Healers already are.
Especially since they can be replaced immediatly.

Besides, when you see yourself at the very bottom of a DPS list, you either don't care at all (and get the rist of getting kicked if you are really terrible) or you feel the need to step up your game not to be "the last".

Yes, bad behaviors will probably be a bit more frequent... but to the last of my knowledge, you can still report people for harassment/insults.

Edit to clarify what I think is needed: I don't want a really accurate ingame parser. I just want to know if the damage done by a DPS class is low/below average/average/above average/high.
This could be very easily done using symbols or a color code in your party list.
Devs already know what are the DPS checks in the game and the average DPS a party/DPS members should do in order to make things go smoothly.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

words

Being at the bottom of the list doesn't necessarily mean you "don't care". No one can NOT be last, cause someone HAS to be last. Doing as much damage as you can should be your main priority, not measuring yourself up to several other players whose overall damage output won't always match yours due to variables.

[Valar-Shadowmourne]

Keep in mind, this is the same team that has a cap on Blacklist, prevents you from whispering in dungeons, and a slew of other "anti-bullying" measures that generally take away from the game more than they prevent bullying.

When questions like these occur, Metal Gear Solid 4 comes to mind, only replace "Nanomachines" with "Bullying" and you basically have their answer for why Yoshida's team does such things on XIV.

[StrejdaTom]

Being at the bottom of the list doesn't necessarily mean you "don't care". No one can NOT be last, cause someone HAS to be last. Doing as much damage as you can should be your main priority, not measuring yourself up to several other players whose overall damage output won't always match yours due to variables.

No one is going to start a witch hunt because of 10 DPS difference, but if there would be something like 200 DPS difference it would be obvious that the person is either semi-afking trying to get carried trough duty or that the person doesn't know how to play her character and needs a few advices.

At this moment if you would say anything like that the person might go "OMFG stop harrassing me and using 3rd party software, report, lol wtf." And you may get banned even if you had only good intentions. Ingame parser would prevent that.

[Fyce]

Being at the bottom of the list doesn't necessarily mean you "don't care". No one can NOT be last, cause someone HAS to be last. Doing as much damage as you can should be your main priority, not measuring yourself up to several other players whose overall damage output won't always match yours due to variables.

Read my entire post, including the edit.
I don't care if they are at the bottom of the list because they sit at 199 DPS while every other player is at 200. Indeed, someone has to be in the last place. What's important is how far behind they are... I thought it was obvious enough.

All I want is a legit way to tell easily if a DPS (including myself) doesn't play properly for some reason.

[LunaHoshino]

To those who say there's no need for parsers in anything other than Coil... so you think it's fair to make the rest of the party carry underperforming DPS through content? Because that's exactly what happens: they get carried by the other DPS. And it does no one any favors, least of all the person themselves, because they'll continue to think that they're playing just fine since they were able to clear those things, right? However, eventually they'll hit something that has a DPS check and get a rude awakening when they can't meet it, not to mention annoy the seven other people in their party.

Better that people learn early on that they're doing something wrong so that they have the awareness and the time to work on fixing it before they learn it the hard way.

[seida]

If people can't compare themselves to others, they will have no reason to step up their game.

While this is possible, it's the best we're going to get.

I don't think it's likely we'll ever get an in-game parser that displays dps for all to see; it would cause too many problems.

For the sake of us who DO care, especially those of us on console, a personal parser would be wonderful.

It might also be useful if it had some way of providing a comparison number - this is what you are currently doing, this is what you COULD be doing (roughly) based on your current stats etc. That way DPS know how much they could improve without relying on showing other people's numbers.