Add a Parser that only the player can see.

[Spoekes]

According to information gathered from guides you need 2150 Raid-DPS (~270 DPS per player) to beat T13 before the 14 min enrage.

Considering every DPS player does about 400 DPS, both tanks and heals have to do 550 DPS combined (=easily achievable).
I'd bet both tanks combined do 500 easily, so there is even more room.

This could btw exactly be SE's argument to not give us parsers, "look at dat monk onry 400 deeps lel content impossibru - replace!"

[randysquirrel]

That is the exact reason I support a parser.
It's not just for calling people out, but it would certainly help, if you're not meeting the enrage, to know if it genuinely is a dps that needs to up their game, whether you need your sch to trust the whm a bit more and push more dps, or whatever else.

[Ossom]

If you don't know how to play your class, a personal parser can only help you.

I can not grasp cons of having a personal parser.

[ColdestHeaven]

According to information gathered from guides you need 2150 Raid-DPS (~270 DPS per player) to beat T13 before the 14 min enrage.

Considering every DPS player does about 400 DPS, both tanks and heals have to do 550 DPS combined (=easily achievable).
I'd bet both tanks combined do 500 easily, so there is even more room.

This could btw exactly be SE's argument to not give us parsers, "look at dat monk onry 400 deeps lel content impossibru - replace!"

I believe at the very least a fraction of the player base does not share your concept of "easy". Both in regards to DPS mantaining a certain DPS throughout the entire fight lasting 14 minutes with all the mechanics and forced stops (Divebombs), and other roles contributing intensely to the overall DPS. I mean, raiders who have cleared it many times may laugh and say "yeah, 'course, that's damn easy!" and will most probably do much more in much less time.

But - believe me - the term "easy" is really out of place. I have seen people fail at Titan's Hard Mode check some months ago, I have seen people almost completely i130 with 5 DPS failing Odin's check. Hell, probably you noticed these situations too, at times.

I'm not sure about posting parses, no idea how forum policy works, however I'll just say that I have saved the screen from our T13 first clear (in hopes of doing better next times). Thing is, we all had a high gear and top/near-top weapons. The only one really going above 450+ was me, the others still did their best and ended up with less than 400. And I can assure you that our healers&tanks combined did less than that fabled 550. Oh trust me, if it really was that easy we wouldn't have struggled so much - and so wouldn't have the raiders not clearing it within the first week, or those who now have all the gear but still have trouble clearing it. What, you think that just because an average i130 dps can mantain 400 dps on a dummy, it's the same in T13? Besides, heck, I might just be unlucky, but I don't even see people reaching it outside of Coil.

I'm just saying that DPS isn't a faceroll for everyone only because it is for you (not you in particular Spoekes). Parsers can give perspective on how someone is doing, regardless of the fight or anything (500 on a dummy does not necessarily mean you can do 500 on each and every other fight), and that is the main thing some of us are now trying to say. They can't tell you what you're doing wrong, but they can tell you how much you are doing, period - which is exactly what many want, to understand if they are playing the class to their best considering other situations, or simply seeing if they're doing better than before or not. Aggro is not a measure to be trusted to calculate how much damage you are doing, and we are not the only ones dealing damage in most content, which then brings us the question: how do I know if I'm doing it wrong? Or, most importantly, how do I know if I can do it better?

As to "people will harass others for the result of the parses", as many are doing now anyway, well that's just in our hands. Creating a better community is really not up to the developer, as long as they don't put a prize for inventing new words to insult newbies. What is being asked, right now, is a tool to ascertain if there is room to improve at all - maybe experimenting a little.

Sorry for the wallpost, I don't know how to be more brief/direct.

[Crescent_Dusk]

Anyone who has played Guild Wars 2 knows the evils of not having DPS meters.

For one, people fall back to anecdote and other unreliable delusions to frame their performance, giving rise to bad builds that aren't simply challenged because you can't officially pin blame without parsers. Basically, people can get into your group and only UNTIL you are actually wipe can you notice what is wrong.

More importantly, even though GW2 didn't have DPS meters, people still quickly figured out which were the higher DPS builds and classes. You can't hide effectiveness, people.

Feel free to play your own way or play even casually with those who AGREE to play suboptimally, but do not presume to drag strangers/guildies down and feel entitled to making others carry you. It's a disrespect for their time.

[Spoekes]

I believe at the very least a fraction of the player base does not share your concept of "easy". Both in regards to DPS mantaining a certain DPS throughout the entire fight lasting 14 minutes with all the mechanics and forced stops (Divebombs), and other roles contributing intensely to the overall DPS. I mean, raiders who have cleared it many times may laugh and say "yeah, 'course, that's damn easy!" and will most probably do much more in much less time.

But - believe me - the term "easy" is really out of place. I have seen people fail at Titan's Hard Mode check some months ago, I have seen people almost completely i130 with 5 DPS failing Odin's check. Hell, probably you noticed these situations too, at times.

I'm not sure about posting parses, no idea how forum policy works, however I'll just say that I have saved the screen from our T13 first clear (in hopes of doing better next times). Thing is, we all had a high gear and top/near-top weapons. The only one really going above 450+ was me, the others still did their best and ended up with less than 400. And I can assure you that our healers&tanks combined did less than that fabled 550. Oh trust me, if it really was that easy we wouldn't have struggled so much - and so wouldn't have the raiders not clearing it within the first week, or those who now have all the gear but still have trouble clearing it. What, you think that just because an average i130 dps can mantain 400 dps on a dummy, it's the same in T13? Besides, heck, I might just be unlucky, but I don't even see people reaching it outside of Coil.

I'm just saying that DPS isn't a faceroll for everyone only because it is for you (not you in particular Spoekes). Parsers can give perspective on how someone is doing, regardless of the fight or anything (500 on a dummy does not necessarily mean you can do 500 on each and every other fight), and that is the main thing some of us are now trying to say. They can't tell you what you're doing wrong, but they can tell you how much you are doing, period - which is exactly what many want, to understand if they are playing the class to their best considering other situations, or simply seeing if they're doing better than before or not. Aggro is not a measure to be trusted to calculate how much damage you are doing, and we are not the only ones dealing damage in most content, which then brings us the question: how do I know if I'm doing it wrong? Or, most importantly, how do I know if I can do it better?

As to "people will harass others for the result of the parses", as many are doing now anyway, well that's just in our hands. Creating a better community is really not up to the developer, as long as they don't put a prize for inventing new words to insult newbies. What is being asked, right now, is a tool to ascertain if there is room to improve at all - maybe experimenting a little.

Sorry for the wallpost, I don't know how to be more brief/direct.

It was never ment to say "the encounter was easy". Actually, as "from guides" implied, I havent even done it myself.

Actually, we both are kind of on the same page, as I answered to

Many players thinks 350-400 DPS is fine and all, but it really isn't... It's not just that players demand higher DPS, the encounter demands higher DPS. This stops majority of players from progression through content before Echo comes along, because people don't get the DPS they should get.

350-400 average DPS is very high, but I take it you're talking about the DPS only? 350 average DPS on the DPS jobs won't take you through FCoB, unless your tanks and healers are doing a really good job.

Also, if everyone is around 400 DPS, they are not on the same skill level, because doing 400 DPS on a BRD is much more acceptable than a MNK, NIN or DRG doing 400 DPS.

just to say that expecting this dummy parses is unrealistic and not needed in the first place.

[ColdestHeaven]

It was never ment to say "the encounter was easy". Actually, as "from guides" implied, I havent even done it myself.

Actually, we both are kind of on the same page, as I answered to



just to say that expecting this dummy parses is unrealistic and not needed in the first place.

My bad if I misunderstood what you said, but I assumed what you meant was: parsers are not necessary/should not be mandatory because reaching those numbers is easy.
Then again, bringing an argument like that to prove a point and not having even tried said instance yourself was not smart.

Dummy parses show what someone can do in a perfect situation, which especially for melees/bards is something achievable for the first phases of certain fights - turn 10 to turn 12, to some degrees, are basically a fight with little mechanics until there's a change of phase.

But if you expect people to kick solely on dummy parsing, isn't that just assuming the worst? I mean, we are already kicking people for having low ilvls or being French, I guess I can understand your concern, but every tool (knowing the language of the client to adapt and use the translator, or discerning the sum of the gear in basic terms) can be used in a good way and a bad way. That line of thinking can only lead to us receiving no more toys because we are bad kids.

[Ossom]

Dummy Parsers show you have a basic understanding of your class.

A personal parser would show you second by second how you are doing in a fight. The only time I expect someone would ever demand a parse from you is if you wish to join a progression raid group. And they demand it now, even if you don't parse. I've been in progression groups and I can't parse myself because I play on PS4. It doesn't mean that I'm not parsed every time I go into raid, or parsed before I even join a raid group. A personal parser would only help me, because I could spend time perfecting my rotation even more. Right now I can't check my own DPS even though I'm expect to bring a certain amount of DPS to each raid encounter.

[Spoekes]

My bad if I misunderstood what you said, but I assumed what you meant was: parsers are not necessary/should not be mandatory because reaching those numbers is easy.
Then again, bringing an argument like that to prove a point and not having even tried said instance yourself was not smart.

Dummy parses show what someone can do in a perfect situation, which especially for melees/bards is something achievable for the first phases of certain fights - turn 10 to turn 12, to some degrees, are basically a fight with little mechanics until there's a change of phase.

But if you expect people to kick solely on dummy parsing, isn't that just assuming the worst? I mean, we are already kicking people for having low ilvls or being French, I guess I can understand your concern, but every tool (knowing the language of the client to adapt and use the translator, or discerning the sum of the gear in basic terms) can be used in a good way and a bad way. That line of thinking can only lead to us receiving no more toys because we are bad kids.

Ok we have a big misunderstanding here.
In no way am I assuming anyone kicks people based on dummy parsing, I said you should not expect dummy parses in a real fight, no idea how you grab that one sentence out of context so much.

My concern is that statements like Craigers reply drive the devs to refraining from parsers, comparing a random DPS in a PF T10 group to the highest number possible you find on google or of your proficient long term farm group.
Of course a proficient fully BIS™ group can do much more, but I was taking T13 as the final encounter as example to show that 400 can be enough.

I want parsers in game asap.
Been in multiple PF T10 groups with peeps making beef that everyone needs 450-500 DPS or we hit enrage. Cleary a sign they have no parser.

Hope we're clear now =) Peace.

[Aurelinaus]

who would be parsing a low level roulette lmao

I've run into a couple here and there, they were diva tanks more often than not.