Why should I be excited for Grind Parties?

[Wolfie]

Grind parties don't promote good team play, because people always analyze leveling until they turn it into a science. Nobody, ever, takes the "challenging" route in leveling; it's always the fastest and easiest route.

Group grinding in FFXI taught me nothing about what it means to be a good BLM or WHM at end game, because we just plowed through mobs that weren't dangerous and died fast. It taught me nothing about Gravity/Bind/Sleep kiting, about carrying medications and poison potions with me, about MP conservation vs spam nuking/healing, etc. Everything that made me a good end-game BLM and WHM, I learned either from soloing (as a BLM, once people finally figured out that TP burn is the way to go) or from actually doing end-game (as a WHM).

Granted, soloing doesn't teach you much either, but at least you don't have to put up with not being the current flavor-of-the-month class, putting together groups, finding replacements, not finding a good grind camp, etc.

[Exni]

Grind parties don't promote good team play, because people always analyze leveling until they turn it into a science. Nobody, ever, takes the "challenging" route in leveling; it's always the fastest and easiest route.

Group grinding in FFXI taught me nothing about what it means to be a good BLM or WHM at end game, because we just plowed through mobs that weren't dangerous and died fast. It taught me nothing about Gravity/Bind/Sleep kiting, about carrying medications and poison potions with me, about MP conservation vs spam nuking/healing, etc.

Wow. You must have had the MOST FAIL grind pts. Actually.. grinding in XI did the exact opposite of everything you said. But i guess you never needed CC in any of your pts.. no skillchains or MBs ever... no food.. no meds.. (echo drops much?).. sorry, that's just complete fail. And to top it off.. you think questing would be more "challenging".. Try joining a real grind pt first.

(Might not completely be you fault depending on when you started though.. Last couple years of XI BLM rarely does anything outside of manaburn for exp, and once other jobs got Raise, WHM usually took a backseat to getting invites for exp grinding)

[Wolfie]

Wow. You must have had the MOST FAIL grind pts. Actually.. grinding in XI did the exact opposite of everything you said. But i guess you never needed CC in any of your pts.. no skillchains or MBs ever... no food.. no meds.. (echo drops much?).. sorry, that's just complete fail. And to top it off.. you think questing would be more "challenging".. Try joining a real grind pt first.

(Might not completely be you fault depending on when you started though.. Last couple years of XI BLM rarely does anything outside of manaburn for exp, and once other jobs got Raise, WHM usually took a backseat to getting invites for exp grinding)

Yeah man. Totally my fault parties stuck to crabs/crawlers/beetles/bats/colibri. I'm sorry I wasn't there in FFXI's early years, when people hadn't already figured out the easiest way to level.

For the record, as a BLM in end game, I almost never used magic burst. I was relegated to sleep and stun duty about half the time, and the other half was just random nuking of whatever my strongest element was. I learned more as a BLM in FFXI by soloing wamouras and sea organs than I did by partying.

By the time I got my WHM leveled, people no longer took BLMs in regular parties. It was all TP-burn-wannabe parties with no skill chains, on VT or weak IT mobs and colibri. About half the time I spent in battle was just staring at the screen, or refreshing Regen, or reapplying enfeebles.

No, I don't think quest grinding or solo grinding is necessarily harder or gives you more knowledge about your class. It was a phenomenon that was unique to FFXI, because group grinding was easier and safer than soloing.

EDIT:

What I mean to say by all of this is that even if the devs promote group grinding, I can guarantee that it will not teach people anything important about their class' or job's end-game duties. They will always fight the easiest mobs with the most fool-proof party setups in the most lazy play style. It's something that happens in every MMO, regardless of what the method to getting to max level is. People don't want to put in effort while leveling, bottom line.

[Seikninkuru]

Can we just settle the debate here simply. The fact is the people who played FFXI excusively are really throwbacks to the mmorpg genre. They're outdated, their views on gameplay are antiquated... and while I would hope they get some representation, the reality is they're a dying breed and will eventually be phased out. Bad gameplay can only be covered up by a good name(arguable) for so long.

In short.

FFXI is bad, do not replicate it.

[Jericho]

Can we just settle the debate here simply. The fact is the people who played FFXI excusively are really throwbacks to the mmorpg genre. They're outdated, their views on gameplay are antiquated... and while I would hope they get some representation, the reality is they're a dying breed and will eventually be phased out. Bad gameplay can only be covered up by a good name(arguable) for so long.

In short.

FFXI is bad, do not replicate it.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[Xatsh]

Can we just settle the debate here simply. The fact is the people who played FFXI excusively are really throwbacks to the mmorpg genre. They're outdated, their views on gameplay are antiquated... and while I would hope they get some representation, the reality is they're a dying breed and will eventually be phased out. Bad gameplay can only be covered up by a good name(arguable) for so long.

In short.

FFXI is bad, do not replicate it.

Have to define bad game play.

Was FFXI bad... highest gross profit FF game, was in the top 3 mmo for over 6yrs in terms of population only fell below 5 after Aion I belive, held almost its entire playerbase for 8yrs. Only Existing mmo that WoW didn't destroy population wise more or less after it released.

ATM you have 3 scenarios:

1) Old School Grind: Current Gen Western players hate it (Asian grind is what most people consider it now days)
2) Newer Gen: Repetitive Solo Quest Grind (honestly just as bad as option 1, except you are playing an online mmo like a offline one)
3) Current Gen Western games: You get to endgame with quest really fast (WoW's Style now days... can get to cap in 1 week if you are a semi-hardcore player, makes the game way to fast)


Honestly all 3 of those fail in their own way. So what is broken and what isn't. One caters to those who hate grouping the whole point of an online game, one caters only to those who have a lot of time (ffxi/eq style), one caters to those who want a offline experience who hate waiting and want instant gratification.

Atm you have an issue with XIV.
-The current FFMMO players for the most part want a party centric game with the option to solo when they are low on time. Solo Quest based Leveling will not work in this case.
-You have people who came over from the WoW age, who want well mainstream western style (WoW's quest based leveling system until endgame where you group for raids)... Grind Partys are looked down apon here. And the people who want to party simply will quit over this, Solo quest grind forces everyone to solo.

Only Solution: Offer multiple options. You cannot screw your fanbase over and but you also cannot ignore Western destruction advancement of the genre. (Depending on your point of view)

You want to do quest this game needs to have them, but you need to level alot slower. You want to play a mmo (socialize and stuff) then group up and get there faster. You want crazy fast progression buy XIII-2 and stop playing XIV (MMOs are not suppose to be fast). They are even adding group quest thing to sorta combine both sides.

Your opinion of FFXI being bad game proves more or less your ignorance. It is not your cup of tea, but is also one of the worlds most successful mmos and there are a ton more people then you think who want a party centric mmo, so many are sick of WoW clone after WoW clone. I mean that is what a mmo is all about the community, this genre is not about solo quest.

[Madruk]

Can we just settle the debate here simply. The fact is the people who played FFXI excusively are really throwbacks to the mmorpg genre. They're outdated, their views on gameplay are antiquated... and while I would hope they get some representation, the reality is they're a dying breed and will eventually be phased out. Bad gameplay can only be covered up by a good name(arguable) for so long.

In short.

FFXI is bad, do not replicate it.

Translation: I like to collect bear asses and roleplay FedEx.

[LillithaFenimore]

Grind parties don't promote good team play, because people always analyze leveling until they turn it into a science. Nobody, ever, takes the "challenging" route in leveling; it's always the fastest and easiest route.

Group grinding in FFXI taught me nothing about what it means to be a good BLM or WHM at end game, because we just plowed through mobs that weren't dangerous and died fast. It taught me nothing about Gravity/Bind/Sleep kiting, about carrying medications and poison potions with me, about MP conservation vs spam nuking/healing, etc. Everything that made me a good end-game BLM and WHM, I learned either from soloing (as a BLM, once people finally figured out that TP burn is the way to go) or from actually doing end-game (as a WHM).

Granted, soloing doesn't teach you much either, but at least you don't have to put up with not being the current flavor-of-the-month class, putting together groups, finding replacements, not finding a good grind camp, etc.

Yeah I would agree with this. When I was WHM on my very first FFXI character. I would sub ninja and go farm I think it was spider webbs in the boyada tree or something like that...can't remember...but anyways...that taught me how to be a really good WHM IMO. WHM is one of the hardest jobs at the time to do anything solo with...So I can see where you are coming from.