Why should I be excited for Grind Parties?

[Xatsh]

Can we just settle the debate here simply. The fact is the people who played FFXI excusively are really throwbacks to the mmorpg genre. They're outdated, their views on gameplay are antiquated... and while I would hope they get some representation, the reality is they're a dying breed and will eventually be phased out. Bad gameplay can only be covered up by a good name(arguable) for so long.

In short.

FFXI is bad, do not replicate it.

Have to define bad game play.

Was FFXI bad... highest gross profit FF game, was in the top 3 mmo for over 6yrs in terms of population only fell below 5 after Aion I belive, held almost its entire playerbase for 8yrs. Only Existing mmo that WoW didn't destroy population wise more or less after it released.

ATM you have 3 scenarios:

1) Old School Grind: Current Gen Western players hate it (Asian grind is what most people consider it now days)
2) Newer Gen: Repetitive Solo Quest Grind (honestly just as bad as option 1, except you are playing an online mmo like a offline one)
3) Current Gen Western games: You get to endgame with quest really fast (WoW's Style now days... can get to cap in 1 week if you are a semi-hardcore player, makes the game way to fast)


Honestly all 3 of those fail in their own way. So what is broken and what isn't. One caters to those who hate grouping the whole point of an online game, one caters only to those who have a lot of time (ffxi/eq style), one caters to those who want a offline experience who hate waiting and want instant gratification.

Atm you have an issue with XIV.
-The current FFMMO players for the most part want a party centric game with the option to solo when they are low on time. Solo Quest based Leveling will not work in this case.
-You have people who came over from the WoW age, who want well mainstream western style (WoW's quest based leveling system until endgame where you group for raids)... Grind Partys are looked down apon here. And the people who want to party simply will quit over this, Solo quest grind forces everyone to solo.

Only Solution: Offer multiple options. You cannot screw your fanbase over and but you also cannot ignore Western destruction advancement of the genre. (Depending on your point of view)

You want to do quest this game needs to have them, but you need to level alot slower. You want to play a mmo (socialize and stuff) then group up and get there faster. You want crazy fast progression buy XIII-2 and stop playing XIV (MMOs are not suppose to be fast). They are even adding group quest thing to sorta combine both sides.

Your opinion of FFXI being bad game proves more or less your ignorance. It is not your cup of tea, but is also one of the worlds most successful mmos and there are a ton more people then you think who want a party centric mmo, so many are sick of WoW clone after WoW clone. I mean that is what a mmo is all about the community, this genre is not about solo quest.

[Madruk]

Can we just settle the debate here simply. The fact is the people who played FFXI excusively are really throwbacks to the mmorpg genre. They're outdated, their views on gameplay are antiquated... and while I would hope they get some representation, the reality is they're a dying breed and will eventually be phased out. Bad gameplay can only be covered up by a good name(arguable) for so long.

In short.

FFXI is bad, do not replicate it.

Translation: I like to collect bear asses and roleplay FedEx.

[LillithaFenimore]

Grind parties don't promote good team play, because people always analyze leveling until they turn it into a science. Nobody, ever, takes the "challenging" route in leveling; it's always the fastest and easiest route.

Group grinding in FFXI taught me nothing about what it means to be a good BLM or WHM at end game, because we just plowed through mobs that weren't dangerous and died fast. It taught me nothing about Gravity/Bind/Sleep kiting, about carrying medications and poison potions with me, about MP conservation vs spam nuking/healing, etc. Everything that made me a good end-game BLM and WHM, I learned either from soloing (as a BLM, once people finally figured out that TP burn is the way to go) or from actually doing end-game (as a WHM).

Granted, soloing doesn't teach you much either, but at least you don't have to put up with not being the current flavor-of-the-month class, putting together groups, finding replacements, not finding a good grind camp, etc.

Yeah I would agree with this. When I was WHM on my very first FFXI character. I would sub ninja and go farm I think it was spider webbs in the boyada tree or something like that...can't remember...but anyways...that taught me how to be a really good WHM IMO. WHM is one of the hardest jobs at the time to do anything solo with...So I can see where you are coming from.

[weeble]

grinding is in my opinion the best way to grind, i have in no way any joy out of doing it threw leves or quests, i don't want to read box text, like in wow that i know not one piece of lore or warhammer from years of playing it cause u skip reading them. also i don't like walking or running for long or short bursts, i'm not playing mmo's for electronic scenery ...i'm here to kill shat and get better gear to kill shat even better.

the time in between mobs is no fun, also i don't like any of the time to start quests, the run to the mobs, or the run back to npc's, these are just time sinks in my opinion ... make party ...go to mobs, ...then kill them all day long. is way better then quests, it is the same amount of time technically (least should be less it's just a mmo with fast leveling to max witch ffxiv should not be) same amount of time but lots of in between stuff that is unnecessary.

on top of that i believe in party grinding not solo, granted this game and most mmo's are being made for solo, all good but this game is still gonna have party grinds and to do that with quests is horrible. i hated leves, i hated like i mentioned above all the different types of waiting. but on top of that then there is dealing with people with little time, when u make a party grind like in ffxi, u can make a party pretty easy then u can keep it going for 3-16hrs literally all day pretty easy if u wanted to. quests? u can not, and it also creates a situation where i'm sorry i need to go after one quest.

i am hoping they bring back full 8man grinds, i am thinking this will happen specially later when we get our jobs and public dungeons and hopefully in later content as well. full party grinds would make my day, i don't like the idea of duo or trio's. not fun enough for me, i like big ol groups like in ffxi. solo is cool, duo is cool but for inbetween while waiting if u have problems getting a group together.... witch doesn't really happen for years of a good mmo and maybe some of the really crazy hours of the morning.

one thing i do agree with, the mobs in this game are like wow/warhammer, they all feel the same. u kill one u have killed them all. where as in ffxi killing all mobs felt different, they all had a tactic or 2, or a spell or buff or debuff/enfeeb to remove or avoid. hopefully these things make there way back to the game again. cause killing them right now is gonna be like bird camps but the hole game of bird camps no matter what mobs we kill, so in that it will be bad and for only that reason. but we do got mobs linking,chain bonus and all that stuff you mentioned and that stuff just makes it all much more fun. beats the heck out of questing i'm sorry, quests and missions belong as a seperate but just as exiting content, it should all have cut scenes and be worth reading, it should never mix into quest story that is not worth reading about why u need to kill 10mobs, who cares. the 2 are perfect separately. together they are both weaksauce.

they should make mmo's like old rpg's where u run into unavoidable mobs every 5seconds ...i'd so enjoy this lmao.

[Miraa]

they should make mmo's like old rpg's where u run into unavoidable mobs every 5seconds ...i'd so enjoy this lmao.

Skies of Arcadia Online?

Sega, make it happen.

[ChiefCurrahee]

Why is anyone excited about chain xp and grinding incentives? Wowee! Bonus xp for killing 1 enemy type in X seconds or less is soooooooo much better than doing actual quests. Gosh, Let's all sit in one area killing the same thing over and over again

How about instead of feigning excitement for this let's get some quests that are worth completing. Not a quest that sends you to some obscure location to kill 3 mobs, then return for as much xp as 1 mob gave you. Hell, I'd rather sit in one spot and kill the same thing over and over again than do that, at least then i'm getting some real xp out of the same time investment.

The problem with quests in FFXIV is currently they are one time only quest. In games like WoW or Rift or other quest based progression game the dev team knows if they create 100 quests with progression rewards they know extacly down to the number how many quests they need to get players from 1 to max. That type of progression works in a 1 character 1 class type game. You start a new character you play through the same quests.

In FFXIV you have 1 character many jobs. The devs would have to create hundereds if not thousands of quests to make sure if the player choose to level each and every class they had the means of doing so level 1 - max for each.

So grinding is an easy alternative to quest progression as is leve quests.

I wouldn't mind repeatable quests such as kill ABC mob(s) x XYZ times and return for reward rinse and repeat to give a little more insentive to our open world grinds. even give players a reason to repeat dungeons by giving a small xp reward.

[Rydin]

This may interest you

JP side has a thread going which talks about how the sub-quests doesn't have any taste, it plain and boring you just read some text, no cut scenes and their isn't too much live feeling to it. They want devs to add more performance to the sub-quests giving out ideas to improve them.

Here's reps response to that.

Original Thread Link: http://goo.gl/rzEiK

皆さん、こんばんは。
Good Evening Everyone,

サブクエストの演出についてプロデュサーの吉田と話をしてきました。
Talked to Yoshida producer regarding performance of sub-quests.

サブクエストが全くない状況から、サブクエストなどのクエスト周りのシステムをこれまで追加してきましたが、
パッチ1.21で実装を予定しているジョブ専用クエストがシステムとしての山場となります。
We started at a point where no sub-quests existed, we added quest system such as sub-quests but the job specific quests which is planned for patch 1.21 will be the turning point.

この実装が終わった後には、サブクエストの内容をどんどんストーリー重視にシフトしていきます。
Once this gets implemented, we will shift to more and more sub-quests with more story.


カットシーンはもちろん、人間臭いようなお話のクエスト、ハッチャケたキャラクターがバンバン出てくるクエスト、
街に入ったり、船に乗ったり、飛空艇に乗ったらクエストがいきなりはじまるなどなど、
多種多様なクエストが実装されていくことを、ぜひぜひ楽しみにお待ちください！！
Of course we will have cut scenes, quests with humanlike stories (drama?), quests tht will have lots of fun characters. Quests which will suddenly happen when entering the city, or boat, or airships. Please have fun and wait for the lots of quests planned to be implemented.

Yoshi P has expressed much interest in having multiple ways to gain levels... and has also admitted that this point between patches will seem like there aren't as many choices.
So we are just in a lull between the leve link nerf and the full sidequest emergence

Yoshi P really is trying to please everyone... Good or bad, he is committed to that goal.... When his vision is realized... you'll be able to grind one day... leves the next... quests the next... dungeons the next day.... beastman strongholds the next day.... and all of these should give decent XP... or if you just want to grind every day, you are free to... If you just have enough time to solo leves then by all means... I can say, there seems like there really will be something for everyone

[weeble]

don't forget blm grind parties with ga3 nukes on wamora, man those were sooooo much fun to do. ffxi was only mmo i played where everything wolfie states is absolutely untrue. all other mmo's are like this, specially ones where quests are a means to grind. blm's pretty much stoped getting invites to regular parties when wotg launched, but then they got wamora's where they mostly solo or grouped with other blm's. i finished off my last 3levels in wotg right when it ended. prior to that i was still grouping and still enjoying my magic bursts, and can't forget the fun of being a blm and being the one to start the skill chains with macro's and am spells, so that u can land AM as the mb.... so much fun.

[Verecund]

Hmmm... didn't know storyline progression could actually be considered as fake content. Thanks for notifying.

[Verecund]

In order for "slow leveling" to actually work these days, there must be plenty of varied content filling in the game itself. (*this argument only applies to countries outside of Korea) Not that I'm complaining about that aspect at all, but this game definitely hasn't come close to filling that bit yet.

Also, one major problem with slower party-based leveling is that if the game fails to have solid hooks to keep new players wanting to level, people aren't going to want to stick around if they join a game half-way through to another expansion and find they have to solo a party-based leveling game (because everyone is at max level).