PC vs. PS4 limitations

[Kosmos992k]

I wish they'd drop consoles entirely... In my opinion MMORPGs don't belong on consoles at all. This game is being held back graphically, and data wise as well.

3 things;

First, no console support would kill this game almost overnight.
Second,with the 8GB of GDDR5 memory PS4 has, there is no argument that you can make that says PS4 holds it back data wise at all.
Third, the GPU in the PS4 isn't exactly high end for dedicated gaming rigs, but it's better than average for consumer PCs in general.

Not to mention, that the PS4 is basically a PC architecture optimized for gaming console use, making it more of a gaming rig 'lite' than anything else. PS4's GPU has the advantage of tighter integration with the rest of the system and a more optimized architecture for gaming instead of running Windows unlike a PC.

If you can scale detail and resolution in a game for differing classes of gaming PC hardware, there is absolutely no reason why that cannot be done with PS4. I can think of no way that PS4 could be accused of holding back the game any more than consumer PCs and low-mid range gaming PCs can.

Oh, and regarding Coerthas and frame rates, a lot of PC players have the same issues, the problem is that the game client either needs it's draw distance capped to prevent drops in frame rate, or it needs to stop rendering everything around the character, even though it's not currently in view. this is a problem shared by many people, not just console based players.

Regarding housing...

I thought they said this was server side, not a console restriction.

That is in fact what they have said, it is server side, not client.

I think they should just separate us. Let console users play with other console players and PC play with themselves

I see what you did there....

PS4 probably outperforms more than half the PC's people are using to play this game anyways.

Segregating console and PC players would be counter productive to the game's future, not to mention that people haven't the slighted clue whether a person is playing on PS4 with a DS4, or on PC with a 3rd party controller.

[Eye_Gore]

Segregating console and PC players would be counter productive to the game's future, not to mention that people haven't the slighted clue whether a person is playing on PS4 with a DS4, or on PC with a 3rd party controller.

That's for sure. I wouldn't want to separate them. Imagine the que times then. I just said that because its kinda sad this whole PC/console debate. Its like two old men arguing over tuna or chicken salad. They both do the same thing, for all purposes here anyways.

[Kosmos992k]

That's for sure. I wouldn't want to separate them. Imagine the que times then. I just said that because its kinda sad this whole PC/console debate. Its like two old men arguing over tuna or chicken salad. They both do the same thing, for all purposes here anyways.

LOL agreed. Though I shall note that tuna will always smell fishy....

[JonLuso]

The thing with PC scaling is that developers can, with more ease, raise the requirements of a game without so much backlash/negative effects. When you have to support a console alongside a PC platform, then there comes a point where that console's specs, which are locked in, make it so that you can't feasibly make the game any better, technically speaking and low-end/mid-ranged PC's are no longer the culprit.

With PC's, there's always the sense of freedom; this includes hardware scaling, software planning and hardware extensions.

With consoles, no matter what innovation (touch screen, motion control, etc.) the console has, it will inevitably lead to limitations of some sort further down the line.

Low-end and mid-ranged PC/laptops do limit games, yes, but assuming those games are PC-only, this is something that can be easily rectified compared to that of a cross-platform environment-based game involving consoles.

PC games can always be optimized to run no matter what; the argument that low-end/mid-ranged PC's hold back games is a bit base, because the game will be produced, developed and released regardless of an individual's PC specs. You either meet the requirements or you don't. PC games are released to a gaming audience, and most of these gamers know that to effectively play a game, you need to have some sense when it comes to min's and max's in regards to PC gaming performance.

[Kosmos992k]

Low-end and mid-ranged PC/laptops do limit games, yes, but assuming those games are PC-only, this is something that can be easily rectified compared to that of a cross-platform environment-based game involving consoles.

Hand waving and calling it "easily rectified" for low-mid range PCs doesn't alter the simple fact that PS4 is for all intents and purposes an low-mid range gaming PC. And like many PCs it will not get a hardware upgrade. PS4 is an x86 platform, it's as much a PC as any PC sold by Dell, HP, Lenovo or anyone else.There is no difference in scaling a client for low-mid range PCs vs scaling it to PS4, hell it's the same code base.

[JonLuso]

Hand waving and calling it "easily rectified" for low-mid range PCs doesn't alter the simple fact that PS4 is for all intents and purposes an low-mid range gaming PC. And like many PCs it will not get a hardware upgrade. PS4 is an x86 platform, it's as much a PC as any PC sold by Dell, HP, Lenovo or anyone else.There is no difference in scaling a client for low-mid range PCs vs scaling it to PS4, hell it's the same code base.

The PS4 is still a console; you can call it whatever you want: a low-end PC, mid-ranged, whatever. The fact is that its specs are locked in; if it were truly a PC-based environment, you could change the components of said console to match the needs of a game.

The PC-based architecture simply allows games to be better tooled to perform as expected on PS4; to say that it earns the same respects of PCs, though, is not true. You cannot perform hard-ware scaling with the PS4, that is the only thing that's needed to know that it'll hold the game back inevitably. PCs will never do this on paper, as the requirements will just be raised (Look to WoW or SC for examples).

[Kosmos992k]

The PS4 is still a console; you can call it whatever you want: a low-end PC, mid-ranged, whatever. The fact is that its specs are locked in; if it were truly a PC-based environment, you could change the components of said console to match the needs of a game.

The PC-based architecture simply allows games to be better tooled to perform as expected on PS4; to say that it earns the same respects of PCs, though, is not true.

OK, look, stop defending the PC, it's not under attack. The vast majority of PCs in existence will *never* see a hardware upgrade during their life, how is that any different? PC chauvinism isn't a substitute for logic, reason and fact.

p.s. please do not assume I am ignorant of PC technology or that I am some console fanboy. I've worked with PCs at the hardware level since 1985, I've torn down and rebuilt PCs, I've built systems from scratch. I'm by no means a PC hater. I'm just calling it as I see it.

[JonLuso]

It could probably handle almost anything, at this point. The only things holding it back are the CPU and GPU, both of which are somewhere in the low-mid range of performance classes.

The PS4 has access to 5 GB of its 8 GB reserved for games, according to various developers. Part of the 3 GB is for System operations and background applications, like running Party or PS Store.

5 GB is enough to run this game for years to come, it would seem.

That still doesn't mean that, theoretically, it won't hold the game back at some point if it has the same lifespan that XI did (14 years and running). It's only a matter of time.

@Kosmos: Look, I can see you're getting peeved about the subject, it's obvious. But, you keep referring to points that the PS4 is just as capable as a PC (low-mid ranged), it seems like. All I'm saying is that, no, it's not. The fact is that PS4 hard-locks the game to the PS4's specs. Once a developer commits to developing on PS4, it cannot freely hardware-scale like it may have done in the past. Simply cutting the cord on a console base is disastrous, as most have pointed out. This is a product of locked-in specs; PC's will never have this issue as low-mid ranged PCs will simply be dropped in lieu of newer PCs for PC-only games/upgrades. Simple as that. I'm aware that PC is not under attack; I'm just amazed that people think that PS4 isn't at fault, or at least, that's the vibe I'm getting.

[Kosmos992k]

@Kosmos: Look, I can see you're getting peeved about the subject, it's obvious. But, you keep referring to points that the PS4 is just as capable as a PC (low-mid ranged), it seems like. All I'm saying is that, no, it's not. The fact is that PS4 hard-locks the game to the PS4's specs. Once a developer commits to developing on PS4, it cannot freely hardware-scale like it may have done in the past. Simply cutting the cord on a console base is disastrous, as most have pointed out. This is a product of locked-in specs; PC's will never have this issue as low-mid ranged PCs will simply be dropped in lieu of newer PCs for PC-only games/upgrades. Simple as that. I'm aware that PC is not under attack; I'm just amazed that people think that PS4 isn't at fault, or at least, that's the vibe I'm getting.

I'm peeved because it's a pointless discussion and needlessly divisive.

Your point seems to be that because PS4 is a closed platform it will receive no hardware upgrades. Clearly, that's not in question. However, PCs are not some magical boxes that auto-upgrade themselves either. The absolute vast majority of PCS will never see an upgrade past a USB storage device, and that includes most PCs used to play games.

You say "Once a developer commits to developing on PS4, it cannot freely hardware-scale like it may have done in the past", and yet I think you are missing the point. A developer of a PC game has to be aware of what target platforms (plural) they are targeting because their game has to work on a vast variety of hardware configurations and capability including the lowest common denominator of PC configurations that they can/will support. The game engine therefore has to scale itself for the hardware it's running on. I trust we can agree on that point?

Now the thing is, that with the exception of the Sony specific authentication/networking elements, the PS4 version is the PC version. In other words, the PS4 is now just another one of the various flavor of PC that the developer has to consider in their work. Even if the game begins supporting newer and more powerful PC configurations, the game still scales to the lowest common denominator.

The sticking point for me here is that you seem to want to treat the PS4 as if it is something special, something exceptional that causes more of a problem in this regard than low-mid range PCs do. What I am saying is that there is no reason to do so.

Sure you can upgrade the high end PCs but that doesn't alter the fact that the overwhelming majority will remain unaltered, and short of forcing those players to buy another computer, you better keep supporting their configuration. In practice and effect, that is exactly the same impact as you are ascribing to the PS4 because it cannot be upgraded.

As I said at the start, it's a pointless discussion and needlessly divisive, I'm kicking myself for even responding and for being drawn into an even more pointless argument since despite our different angles on the thing, we broadly agree.

I think another reason is that they don't want to allow cross-platform gaming with competitors, or at least, that's the reasoning it was back then.

Nowadays, they're letting Xbox One games connect to PC gamers in games; I guess XIV just wasn't lucky.

No, not quite. MS doesn't want to give open access to developers, they want everything to be mediated through XBL including all revenue (even subs). It's basically a revenue grab by MS, they want a % of everything including subs. With Sony, the only fee is the per game royalty that applies to all Playstation games. SE is free to update the game, run the subscription service, and Mog station items entirely outside PSN leaving SE to receive 100% of the revenue generated.

With respect to MS, games that they allow cross platform play on are (IIRC) Windows games that are exclusive to MS platforms - in other words, they are not entirely cross platform. You won't see a Mac version of them for example.

[ErzaScarlet77]

Speaking of console, what was the reason for no xbox version?
iirc ff11 came to xbox but not ps2