Has it always been like this or...?

[Anapingofness]

Actually, the same CAN be said for newbies. What on earth would possibly prevent this?

As was mentioned before, newbies are specifically directed toward Duty Finder by the game. A good portion of them don't know party finder even exists until someone tells them about it.

Secondly, many newbies do not have the social networks that the more experienced players have. That is to say, they may have very few friends, no ls, no FC.
Some newbies may have a friends, an FC, or an LS but not all of those may be willing to help.
Not all newbies are in this boat, but a good deal are and we need to be aware of this.

That is why I say that an experienced player will have a much easier time setting up a farming run than a newbie trying to get through CM/Prae for the story.

[Yukiko]

I know players who have no interest in tomes, they spam it for the card. Are they wrong for wanting to clear as many times per hour as possible?

Majority rules is the only truly fair compromise. If either side of the vote disagrees, I suggest PF as an alternative.

Nobody deserves special treatment.

For the Card you dont need to do random roullet, so get in with your friends if you dont like to wait...
Its the same as if you like to be kicked because avoiding the 30m timer, you could leave every time but you do not because you can abuse system mechanics - "the others" have to pay for your personal gain, and thats not good.

Edit: Lets say you doing normal DF setup because group is not full -> Discuss it if you like to speedrun or not and watch if there are "others"... thats why we have a chat system!
Most of the time i see players doing random roullet because they can not get the group full, but when waiting alone for DF to pop, you can gain bonus from random roullet too, makes no difference!
And thats where SE made their secund mistake, both "seekers" are the same and will be connected to "others"... if you join daily roulett or not - the system have to find "others".
I am not saying you doing anything wrong, but to be correct and playing as its ment to be, you should not go in with daily roulett when you just like to finish the content asap...

[Duuude007]

I am not saying you doing anything wrong, but to be correct and playing as its ment to be, you should not go in with daily roulett when you just like to finish the content asap...

Daily roulette is a one and done situation. Grinding a single dungeon is quite another.

Regardless, I still disagree, and for a key reason.

DF is effectively a contract you make with the game, that you get access to the instance much faster, but you have no control of who you go in with.

When you have no control, there are bound to be people with differing opinions on how to progress.

If you can accept that risk, that means you are okay with going through the instance however the majority of the party wishes, whether you are or are not IN the majority.

If you are incapable or unwilling of doing the content with said risk, then PF is an available option. One that ANY player can use.

This applies to newbies and veterans alike. Nobody has a good excuse to feign ignorance about how DF or PF function.

[Belhi]

Daily roulette is a one and done situation. Grinding a single dungeon is quite another.

Regardless, I still disagree, and for a key reason.

DF is effectively a contract you make with the game, that you get access to the instance much faster, but you have no control of who you go in with.

When you have no control, there are bound to be people with differing opinions on how to progress.

If you can accept that risk, that means you are okay with going through the instance however the majority of the party wishes, whether you are or are not IN the majority.

If you are incapable or unwilling of doing the content with said risk, then PF is an available option. One that ANY player can use.

This applies to newbies and veterans alike. Nobody has a good excuse to feign ignorance about how DF or PF function.

Nice idea in theory. However that theory won't change new players being driven away from the game by the rather awful experience of having the final step of the Main Scenario of 2.0 ruined and generally being badmouthed. I've seen this happen. That's bad for the game.

[Hik0]

I know players who have no interest in tomes, they spam it for the card. Are they wrong for wanting to clear as many times per hour as possible?

Majority rules is the only truly fair compromise. If either side of the vote disagrees, I suggest PF as an alternative.

Nobody deserves special treatment.

if you farm card doing it with DF is totally ineficient because
- you're forced into the 2-2-4 set up with most likely some lower ilvl player
- wait procs between each runs
while setting a card farm PF you can go with a 1-1-6 set up full of >i110(caped?) player and just explodes every fucking pack/boss in a few secs cuting clear time under what is possibly done even whith the best DF group ever.

[Rubicon]

It's unfortunate but look at it this way, if it wasn't for the "obscure currency" (they were probably farming light) then would there have been enough people to queue for the trial at all? Would you have waited 2 hours or more for a group?

I don't blame you in the slightest and I have had several several very nice and compliant groups with new people so it's out there. Something you may want to do for future trials is start a Party Finder group. Put on the PF that you want to watch cutscenes and slow and easy play.

[Ultear_Milkovich]

These guys queued for " story mode " roulette. If they are smart enough they could easily understand that one of the players is actually here to do the ... "story mode". For real.

This is the only roulette with strong ties with the MSQ scenario and with important CS. If someone is willing to watch the CS im fine with that because i can understand . ALL the other contents drop my tomes as well and the cards drop from the indolent imperial too. no need to be an a**hole like that guy who "cant compute" (maybe he just sucks? see too much people like him in the community now).

I signed for the "story mode" roulette . i ve been perfectly warned, this was in the name of the roulette... its ok then if someone actually needs the story stuff.

[Kiroh]

These guys queued for " story mode " roulette. If they are smart enough they could easily understand that one of the players is actually here to do the ... "story mode".

Not true at all, story mode roulette does not require any of the people entering to be new and more often than not it's 8 people only running it for the tomes.

[GenJoe]

So my question is... has the end game always been this way? Is there no one left who wants to play through the dungeon at a reasonable pace so I can appreciate the content I worked for?

Castrum and Praetorium is NOT the end-game.

Second, to your latter question, usually people are just rushing through things as part of the grind so it's hard to find too many people that will empathize with you there, maybe on the forums, but in the actual group where everybody's doing that for the Nth time, people just wanna get it over with. It's a design flaw that those two places have so many damn cut scenes.. But like you said, you watched the cut scenes the first time around, now you can do the fight second time It's not ideal, but that'll at least get things done.


Actual End-game, doesn't happen like that. If you're chasing end-game contents you'll find that you'll be doing the mindless grind much the same way as other people in your group did.. and the cut scenes are no where as long as those two places.

You're right. Nobody deserves special treatment but everyone should be treated with respect.
If people are not after tomes and are after the card, then they can very easily set up a farming party with like minded individuals. The same cannot be said for newbies who want to enjoy the storyline.

Yes, but what's easier, 7 people making their own individual pf group everyday just for 1 run for a measley ~100 tomes?? there's not enough motivation there to go through all that trouble.

Where on the other hand, the first timer with vested interest in experiencing the game as meant to be, cut scenes in between actually has the motivation to organize a group together. In fact it doesn't even need to be a full group, a group of 3 (2 heals or 2 tank) is enough to hold back the group and slow down the run. and that's what we do for my "special" friend that HAS to have it that way, the special kind that gathers his own shards for all crafting and never skips a cut scene even if he's watched it before -_- I still have a hard time understanding him lol

[Gyson]

So my question is... has the end game always been this way? Is there no one left who wants to play through the dungeon at a reasonable pace so I can appreciate the content I worked for? Is there nothing that can be done to prevent this sort of content and player abuse? Why does Square reward such toxic behavior? I was practically in tears when I left FFXIV last night and for the first time I actually wanted to cancel my subscription and uninstall. If this is the sort of treatment I have to look forward to, I shudder to think what people will say if I ever play with less that optimal gear or I don't perform perfectly as a tank >_>;

Threads like this make me quite sad, and also make it difficult to recommend this game (which I otherwise like very much) to any of my friends who currently aren't playing it.

Poor attitudes of players aside, in my opinion the practice of scaling down the ilevel of gear in lower level dungeons should be present in every dungeon. I'm not sure why the developers are only interested in maintaining the integrity of the intended challenge only in pre-50 dungeons. I think players would lose a lot of their willingness to charge ahead without everyone else if they didn't outlevel the content by so much.

I also think nobody in the party should be able to prematurely end a cutscene if there's a first-timer on the run. That removes both the stress and burden off the new person and allows the content to be experienced as intended by the designers. Unfortunately, few would probably agree to these things because everyone wants their shinies yesterday (so they can then come here and complain about a lack of things to do).

While it's probably not feasible for everyone, I tackled this problem by scheduling a run for these two dungeons with my guild. Like you, I explained this was the big finale to the story I had waded through for 50 levels, and that I wanted to at least try to experience it properly - not only by watching the cutscenes, but by tackling the run with everyone at an average item level of ~50. My guild was cool enough to help me with this; everyone interested dusted off their artifact gear and through a group effort we got the 8-man party outfitted with crafted gear around ilevel 50 for the remaining slots. I got to experience the end of the story in a very authentic and enjoyable way, and I think it was definitely worth the effort of arranging. It is probably my fondest memory in the game right now.