Has it always been like this or...?

[Belhi]

So you think I should have watched the cutscenes and held the group up? That makes you a jerk. Some people just have no consideration for other players.

People aren't jerks for playing the game exactly how it was designed to be. The core issue is a design one which fortunately SE seems to have realised and not repeated.

However, for players who the storytelling is a core factor in there enjoyment having to watch the cutscenes out of context and after the instance taints the experience, particularly due to the fact that the cutscenes aren't well arranged in the inn so you literally have to switch back and forth between tabs just to watch the cutscenes in the correct order.

There are two sides to this argument and at its heart it is a design issue so no side is particularly to blame. However the existence of the Main Scenario Roulette is to facilitate access for players to a core and compulsory part of the story experience. The rewards are specifically designed with that in mind and frankly are pretty generous considering the ease of the content. By queuing for the Roulette you are effectively signing up to the fact you will highly likely be facilitating a new player in their end of 2.0 experience.

This experience can make or break a new players view of the game. I know people who have quit because their experience ruined the story for them and gave them a negative view of the player base. While the cutscenes are badly placed you cant blame players for feeling their experience is ruined when all they have done is play the game exactly as it was designed. Story, for some players, is the main motivation for them to be playing.

While it might not impact on us directly, new players are the lifeblood of MMOs. Player churn is a reality of MMO populations. Players who are driven off by an experience they have to go through is in the long run bad for the game and as a result bad for us as players. This is particularly true as a game ages.

[Anapingofness]

Actually, the same CAN be said for newbies. What on earth would possibly prevent this?

As was mentioned before, newbies are specifically directed toward Duty Finder by the game. A good portion of them don't know party finder even exists until someone tells them about it.

Secondly, many newbies do not have the social networks that the more experienced players have. That is to say, they may have very few friends, no ls, no FC.
Some newbies may have a friends, an FC, or an LS but not all of those may be willing to help.
Not all newbies are in this boat, but a good deal are and we need to be aware of this.

That is why I say that an experienced player will have a much easier time setting up a farming run than a newbie trying to get through CM/Prae for the story.

[Fyce]

If you prevent people from speed running the Story Roulette (would it be by gameplay restriction or by enforcing an etiquette), people won't even bother doing it.

New players will then experience hours of waiting in a queue to end up with a near 100% newbie team which may have trouble even finishing the dungeon.
In that situation, they're not even sure to be able to watch their cutscenes anyway.

Just look at how hard it is for newbies to even get in Cape Westwind.
You really don't want that to happen with CM/Prae.


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However, insults and harassment are obviously bad and should simply be reported.

[Belhi]

Frankly Cape Westwind is a bit of a mystery to me since its on the Trial Roulette and I know a number of people who do that regularly because its quick.

Regardless I don't think there is a simple fix to it at this point to the cutscene issue in CM and Prae. Threads like this will almost certainly continue to pop up in the future.

[Kitano123]

People aren't jerks for playing the game exactly how it was designed to be.

No people are jerks for having no consideration for the other 7 members of their group. Its not hard to understand.

Putting long cutscenes in the middle of dungeons that are meant to be repeated is moronic design, but I dont see how that excuses people from being selfish.

If a few people are driven off because they think other players should treat them as special because they are new then good riddence to them.

[Caraway]

So you think I should have watched the cutscenes and held the group up? That makes you a jerk. Some people just have no consideration for other players.

Do you enjoy your bonus tomestones for their being someone new to the encounter there? If so, maybe you should work with the new person and help them instead of belittling them.

[Anapingofness]

snip

I still say an experienced player will have a much easier time setting up a tome farming run simply because experienced players will have more resources at their disposal. They will be overgeared, they will have more friends, social connections, and more people likely to join them since they are at a stage where they clearly need those tomes. Furthermore, a group that is set on farming tones can and will do it more efficiently in different dungeons where they do not need to want the newbie bonus.

and

snip

I'm sorry but I disagree. I don't believe I put a value on anyone's time. In fact, I specifically said that the newbie's time is just as valid as the experienced players. However, I did put the responsibility on the experienced players because they are more knowledgeable. Furthermore, you're placing the time of seven other people above one person, which is wrong. All of their time is equally valuable. What those people have is different goals. In my experience, the people wanting those tomes/card/etc refuse to budge even an iota and go out of their way to belittle the newbie. I have never seen those SR's take a second to say
"Ok, you can watch CS but we've been here so many times that we just want to get this dungeon over with. Maybe we can reach a compromise? So, we're gonna run ahead and do the fights and you watch cs."
And if the newbie says " But I'd like to experience the fights too!"
The response could be, but doesn't have to be, "Ok, well, we'll clear trash between the cs and wait for you at boss lines" or "could you work with us a little bit?"
Instead, what usually happens is the SR group will zone in and take off like a bat out of hell. The newbie will be in cs and will inevitably get lost because those dungeons are quite large, which will just aggravate the SR's even more because how dare one person speak up?


and

snip

In my experience most newbies don't feel entitled to see the cut scenes. They expect to see them because up until this point in the game nothing has happened to make them think that they wouldn't be able to see cut scenes and experience the dungeon.
Now, as far as the entitled sort of expectations go. I've seen plenty of newbies ASK to see cut scenes. Which the very definition of asking means you will either get one of two answers- a yes or a no.
The problem lies when the newbies are trying to be respectful and asks and the experienced players respond with vitriol. Many times all it takes is for them to see the bonus for the vitriol to start. Which is wrong. (I'm very well aware that not all newbies are the kind that will be respectful, much like not all vets respond with vitriol. This is just what I have seen most of the time.)
As far as your friend goes, yes he acknowledged "other players as actual people with their own agenda and their own time constraints" (to quote you) but that is something that so many SR's have NOT realized or acknowledged. They behave as if THEIR agendas and time is far more valuable than a player who wants to watch CS. They believe that just because they have run these two dungeons for the Nth time they are ENTITLED to have an SR.
Which, again, their time has no greater value than the person who wants to experience the story.

[TruebladeNuke]

No people are jerks for having no consideration for the other 7 members of their group. Its not hard to understand.

Putting long cutscenes in the middle of dungeons that are meant to be repeated is moronic design, but I dont see how that excuses people from being selfish.

If a few people are driven off because they think other players should treat them as special because they are new then good riddence to them.

Is there a way to delete people from real life? Because I do believe this entire post just gave me cancer.

Anyway, I think this thread has reached its constructive end. If I could call for a thread lock right now, I would, but there's notable lack of a "report thread" button on this forum. So I'll just sit back and watch this thread burn for the most part now.

EDIT: I know about that "Report Post" button, but that's just for calling out a single post. I wonder if it could work for an entire thread lock though..

[ColeSlawter]

Possible solution would be the system prompts a vote at the start of these runs if a new person is part of the party. If even 1 member votes no, then the reward stays as is with the 100 <lower level> tomes. However, if ALL party members vote yes then no cutscenes can be skipped by anyone (or maybe progress is locked until all are out) and then in exchange/motivation is that an additional reward of x <higher level> tomes is awarded that does NOT count toward the weekly cap.

Help some new people and let them watch cs, earn enough tomes for ironworks body in 1 week instead of 2.

[Viridiana]

And when all the impatient people start going elsewhere for those quick tomes, new people can enjoy an hour or more wait to get into the dungeon to begin with.

The last two dungeons of 2.0 are the only ones with a massive pile of cutscenes in the middle of them, and I don't think SE will give us any more zones with 15 minutes of cutscene in the middle.

So, CM and Praetorium will be in the same boat (on a much calmer sea, so to speak) as T5, which is pretty easy to get a group for because people love getting the tome bonus. Because there will always be people out there who only need a few hundred more and want variety.

I agree with your second part, though. I think they've seen how many people are turned away by people being jerks about cutscenes and decided not to do it anymore.