Has it always been like this or...?

[JimboTCB]

Castrum is objectionable for both the frequency and the length of its cutscenes - before or after the dungeon is one thing, but having them interspersed constantly throughout the entire length of the dungeon is just taking the piss. I mean, the devs obviously realise it was a horrible design choice, because everything after a certain point in development, all the hard mode primals and so on have a very short intro cutscene, but the bulk of the storyline is shoved down your throat when you exit the instance - i.e. after everyone's already got their loot/commendations and you're not holding anyone up except for yourself.

[Duuude007]

I already addressed this "majority" argument. Theyre not always right, or just, and are often times completely apathetic and hostile towards a minority.

You cannot say this without blatantly ignoring the all-too common hostility new people have when confronted with the concept of ‘having to get along with’ what the party wants to do.
Two sides, same coin. Nobody is the superior in this argument. With context, your point is moot.

Ive pointed it out multiple times even and the hypocrisy with gladly accepting the rewards new players give yet still mistreating them.

Just like the new players gladly accept the generosity of short queues? Okay. Again, not superior argument to returning players. Moot point.

Some, for instance, expect new players to use the much less efficient PF to find story groups knowing full well itll take them much longer to find a group for that as opposed to veterans who have a much higher chance of finding farm groups (being the "majority" and all)... yet here they are, not giving a ... Their problem, right?

Um, a few things here. First, the most common time a vet would use PF for CM or Praet is if they were helping somebody through story and are short a few players. Helping newbies. Second, the only time I ever recall seeing someone even bother doing these dungeons apart from grinding Gaius Card, is via daily roulette. For the daily bonus. New player bonus is white noise . Saying that simply because there are more vets on the server means it is easier to form a pf party is comically oversimplified, if anything they would be less likely to join because of the common volatility of those without experience, and general fatigue of the old content. Again, Gaius farmers would be a key exception, and the value of tomestones would be of lower priority to them. They would just want faster clears. They care about their progression just as much as a new player does. Neither is more deserving of how it is done, all things being equal.

You speak as if veteran players care little for the added rewards new players give yet they obviously love it. When one joins the group the often even express it when the dungeon starts.

Technically what vets ‘love’ is efficiency. If any dungeon is inefficient, vets will not do it, causing much longer queues. Sitting still for a cumulative 30+ minutes for cutscenes every single run is both unnecessary and maddening to many people, which is why, as GMs have explained, an agreement must be decided upon at the beginning. And a vote is the common way of coming to said agreement. Whoever has majority gets what they want, anyone who interferes with said agreement is violating the EULA.

I already said SE has the ability to change this efficiency by adjusting rewards to persuade players to treat others with the same respect shown to them when they first entered the dungeon and still queue up with the same frequency. It need not affect the queue times by much if adjusted correctly. You can either spend the extra 20-30 minutes letting someone watch cutscenes or come back for another 20-30 minute run for the same reward (and a bigger repair bill). Not only is this efficiency adjustable by SE (making your point irrelevant) but I doubt a simple penalty (to an already added bonus) for taking advantage of newbies will result in the hour+ long queues.

Step 1: New players come to forums to complain that queue times are way too long. That Devs need to add incentives to bring back vets.
Step 2: SE obliges. They create Tome bonuses to encourage vets to repeat old content.
Step 3: Veterans find a more efficient farming method, and participate to take advantage of said bonus.
Step 4: New players successfully clear the content, slowly reducing the pool of new players. (and become minority)
Step 5: New players come to forums to complain that dungeons are being rushed. That Devs need to remove incentives to put vets in their place and do what the new players demand.
Step 6: SE obliges. They make the amount of tomestones per hour cut in half unless player spends 2x as long in the instance
Step 7: Veterans find a more efficient dungeon, effectively boycotting the dungeon.
Step 8: New players play nearly explicitly with new players. (and become majority)
Aaand the vicious cycle continues ad infinitum.
Step 1: New players come to forums to complain that queue times are way too long. That Devs need to add incentives to bring back vets.
Etc, etc…

Your so-called idea has holes in it. Come up with something better or expect lasting consequences if/when SE ‘obliges’.

Here's the thing, though. The Roulette bonus is not there to help vets. It's there to help new players. If you're going to participate in a Roulette that's designed to help new players, why would you simultaneously expect them to forgo the rest of what's there to benefit them? have any preexisting expectations when playing alongside 7 complete strangers?

Hey, fixed that for you. No motive for accessing and clearing content is superior to any other.

Perhaps you should read the first post of this thread. The point was that they were cursed out and yelled at, called names and threats, for wanting to watch cutscenes. And this isn't a new behavior.

Nor is it exclusively instigated by vets. Not by a long shot. I have endured many highly volatile newbies who have been just as terrible to returning players.

[Viridiana]

Step 1: New players come to forums to complain that queue times are way too long. That Devs need to add incentives to bring back vets.
Step 2: SE obliges. They create Tome bonuses to encourage vets to repeat old content.

Here's the thing, though. The Roulette bonus is not there to help vets. It's there to help new players. Speaking specifically of the Low, Trial, and Story Roulettes. Similarly, the cutscenes in the Story dungeons are there for the new players. If you're going to participate in a Roulette that's designed to help new players, why would you simultaneously expect them to forgo the rest of what's there to benefit them?

[AreeyaJaidee]

I mean, its sad that both sides of this argument even have to squibble over some dumb stuff like cutscenes.

The whole making light of ppls death and cancer drives home the real issue here.

Too many of you see the internet as memes and such. At the end of the day, were all humans connecting to a social experiment. Human life is something we all share in common and our behaviour on this topic and most times in the game seems a mockery to our species in general.

Jokes and stuff are fun, but too many are using the facade of "I'm just joking" as weapons to inflict malicious intent and do specific damage to each other.

SE went over all this already! They explained there reason for allowing skipping of cutscenes in the past when they weren't skippable.

Does anyone remember the threads about ppl crying because being forced to watch cutscenes?

What was SE reaction? They made a design choice and in doing so stated their stance on instance progression.

Were arguing the very thing they gave us.

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

... *psychoanalysis* ...

I actually have lost loved ones to Cancer. But I didn't think that the comment about a post giving someone cancer was making light of it at all. Sometimes humor is just that, and if we can't laugh about it then we've allowed it to suck more than a little joy out of life.

Laugh in spite of cancer, not because of it.

[AreeyaJaidee]

I actually have lost loved ones to Cancer. But I didn't think that the comment about a post giving someone cancer was making light of it at all. Sometimes humor is just that, and if we can't laugh about it then we've allowed it to suck more than a little joy out of life.

Laugh in spite of cancer, not because of it.

Really? Was it necessary to mock me for my personal experience? I know there's ways to cope. Different ppl have varying degrees of success and progress with coping... While I respect your opinion, I don't think it gives you or anyone else the right to downplay what for me and some other of my family is still very tough issues. I'm not being overly psychoanalytical. I'm just trying to raise awareness that we all need to treat each other different and not take things like life for granted.

Yoshi P vision of this game has been born out of his love for the concept. He is dedicated to it... Why are we repaying love with hate?

If someone want to skip a damn cutscene then cool. If they don't then cool. This is a reason to hate and discriminate? No...

The game isn't just a big movie. Yes that's part of its leisure. But the bigger part of this game is a social organism. Its meant to be shared with others and enjoyed.

[TruebladeNuke]

I mean, its sad that both sides of this argument even have to squibble over some dumb stuff like cutscenes.

The whole making light of ppls death and cancer drives home the real issue here.

Too many of you see the internet as memes and such. At the end of the day, were all humans connecting to a social experiment. Human life is something we all share in common and our behaviour on this topic and most times in the game seems a mockery to our species in general.

Jokes and stuff are fun, but too many are using the facade of "I'm just joking" as weapons to inflict malicious intent and do specific damage to each other.

SE went over all this already! They explained there reason for allowing skipping of cutscenes in the past when they weren't skippable.

Does anyone remember the threads about ppl crying because being forced to watch cutscenes?

What was SE reaction? They made a design choice and in doing so stated their stance on instance progression.

Were arguing the very thing they gave us.

You'll get no argument from me on those points, especially the bolded part there. Honestly, if you think I'm bad with that joke, I should introduce you to some of the people I've met across the internet. I've met people who have little to no humanity in them at all.

And hey, if it makes you feel better, apologies. I'm sorry to hear you had to go through that with your family. As I said earlier, I actually do know how serious it is. I lost one of my pets to cancer, so I pretty much know how awful it feels. You're not alone on that. *Gives a cookie*
(Seriously, I meant no harm. I was hoping to get people to laugh)

By the end of the day though, people are always going to be complaining. My sig pretty speaks the cold truth on that. Demons exist on both ends of this thread's argument, and I fear there won't ever be a true solution to this case.

EDIT: Well, with this whole ordeal about that earlier post I made resolved now, I hope, imma slink back into the shadows again. Resolving this matter took a bit more time than I figured it would. o.o

[Warlyx]

im sure im going to be hated for saying that but....:

we have 2 options here....

u could wait hours to no end until the DF Finds 8 players at the same time wanting to do the dungeon as 1 timers (GL with that now), that will make ppl cry rivers at SE , i waited 3 days and didnt found a party to do castrum/praetorium ...give better rewards so ppl queue!!! ect ect

or u could queue and find a dungeon in no time....because ppl that DONT NEED anything from it, queued for some tomes , u get to finish the MSQ (no one cant force u to skip cutscenes ) and yeah u will miss all the battles ,but u can requeue later and do all the battles w/o the pressure of cutscenes

what im trying to say is that the reason u even got to see the dungeon in the 1 places was because other ppl queued for it....u can hate them all u want , but u entered to the dungeon thanks to this guys...

[Yukiko]

what im trying to say is that the reason u even got to see the dungeon in the 1 places was because other ppl queued for it....u can hate them all u want , but u entered to the dungeon thanks to this guys...

Sorry, I fail to understand why that legitims to "not wait" for him?

[Tsuga]

I used to be one of the people who just asked others to skip the cutscenes if the majority of the group was not running these dungeons for the first time, but this was when it was one of the few, and best ways to farm tomes.

I do think that SE implemented incentive incorrectly. If they were trying to encourage us to help newbies through the dungeon, they should have made it so that the cutscenes were unskippable for newbies, and the fights were only able to be initiated after all party members were out of the cutscene. Instead they gave large incentives to join the duties, and the ability to burn through that content fast so that it gave the best payout.

The way that I see it now is that there are so many options for tomes, it really is on the veteran players to try to cater to the new players at this point. If you're queuing up for main scenario roulette you should know what you're in for, and budget your time accordingly. It is separated from our dungeon roulettes for that very reason.