Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[SarcasmMisser]

This mechanic isn't my idea of fun.

Click me for more wacky fun times.

Whats so hard and complex about "the dragons dive in a clockwise order, first 2 at the same time"? Don't blame the mechanic over players who like to make things more complex than they should be and draw all this john madden nonsense.

[Zeille]

It's not that complicated NOW. Now that you've had someone else die to said mechanic a handful of times and figure it out for you. Now that you've got an infographic to explain it in grand detail, it ain't so bad is it?

This is the inherent problem with fights like this. A random group placed together, of skilled individuals, would not be able to "figure this out" in a meaningful time frame. The divebomb mechanic in t9 is honestly a terrible mechanic. It requires at least one person who already knows the mechanic before the fight even begins. You need this person to mark the floor for you, or you will fail.

This isn't the sort of thing you fail to and then rally and come back for the win from. This mechanic is straight memorization from previous fails. It is not challenging in the sense that you have to use the skills you've learned about your class. It is merely a "You must stand here or you will die". mechanic that gives no obvious clues as to why the sh*t is hitting the fan.

And here is the grey area: Some hardcore groups may find this type of mechanic challenging and actually enjoy it. Place this mechanic in a group of randoms who just want to queue up and get the job done though? Now you've got huge issues.

[SarcasmMisser]

I never had a infographic to explain the fight, I cleared t9 in April last year. I cleared it before there were guides such as this and learned it from scratch which is why I hate these big stupid diagrams that don't explain the simple fundamentals of the mechanic. I also learned how to mark t9 savage divebombs, again before there is a guide and that is a whole other beast.

It's not memorization, it's memorization if you depend on dumb stuff like this and don't learn fights in a true progression sense.

[Gardes]

It's not that complicated NOW. Now that you've had someone else die to said mechanic a handful of times and figure it out for you. Now that you've got an infographic to explain it in grand detail, it ain't so bad is it?

This is the inherent problem with fights like this. A random group placed together, of skilled individuals, would not be able to "figure this out" in a meaningful time frame. The divebomb mechanic in t9 is honestly a terrible mechanic. It requires at least one person who already knows the mechanic before the fight even begins. You need this person to mark the floor for you, or you will fail.

This isn't the sort of thing you fail to and then rally and come back for the win from. This mechanic is straight memorization from previous fails. It is not challenging in the sense that you have to use the skills you've learned about your class. It is merely a "You must stand here or you will die". mechanic that gives no obvious clues as to why the sh*t is hitting the fan.

And here is the grey area: Some hardcore groups may find this type of mechanic challenging and actually enjoy it. Place this mechanic in a group of randoms who just want to queue up and get the job done though? Now you've got huge issues. [/B]

You DO realize that this fight was THE content to beat for a good 6 months plus right? The content to beat for at least 1/3 of the period between launch till now? The developers didn't design this fight to be beatable in a "meaningful time frame". IIRC yoship went "WAT" when early birds beat t9 and t13 way too early from what he expected. Plus, you didn't have to NEED one person to know this mechanic to call it out for everybody. Ideally everyone would check the surroundings by themselves and react to it accordingly. Everything above in the chart are all just explanations and calculations to make things easier while explaining why the selected strategy ended up that way.

Also, not every part of the fight has to be a pure 'class' test. That part exists everywhere else in the fight. The tanks have many tank killers to mitigate. The healers have many tank killers to heal through, many unavoidable aoe damage to heal through. The dps have dps checks through out the fight to blast through and also have interrupts in their skill set to use, which healers AND tanks can contribute with in phase 2. Some dps can even phase through incoming damages to minimize dps loss. Damage mitigation, damage healing, damage dealing, damage prevention ARE the skill checks. The dodging part is the personal twitch skill test that most modern mmo gamers WANTED because tanking and spanking is boring to them.

If people doesn't feel that their class skill/knowledge isnt being tested right now, it's because the game removed it for them with echo. I started coil as a replacement in may/june and the party could not make 5 meteor check. We either get 6 or just die. My group's roster then still flopped around and we eventually got a steady group right at american fanfest and we were still getting 5 meteors (half the group that we recruited beat t5 2 weeks prior and have not beaten t7 and 8). We just kept going and practicing until we got 4 meteors all the time and beat it a couple weeks before echo kicks in (we did rely on a spotter for p4 due to pressed time). When we stepped into t10 about 2-3 weeks late with barely any i115 weapons, the supposed harsh dps check in t10 we heard of wasnt the biggest problem we faced.

Now all we have left in t9 is just mechanics checks. As a tank I probably wouldnt even have to time my mitigation for things like raven's beak. I've never tanked t5 on progression and I went into t5 echo'd multiple times as the main tank to help with clears without knowing a single thing about death sentence timing and just took everything to the face and I was never in any danger. I went to t5 and t9 with echo as dps too and never felt any urgency to push my dps like I felt back when I was a sub in for dps (before I became the MT for the clear group).

If people wanted to be tested on their class, they should demand the echo system to be removed and t5/9/13 to be ilvl synced.

[StrejdaTom]

It's not that complicated NOW. Now that you've had someone else die to said mechanic a handful of times and figure it out for you. Now that you've got an infographic to explain it in grand detail, it ain't so bad is it?

And how many statics use the infographics? Never met any.

[Zeille]

You're all missing the point.

With your sweet static of 8 players who are all on vent/teamspeak together, this is the sort of content you crave. Based on the fervent defending here and other complaints regarding the game I've seen elsewhere at least. That's fine and dandy and maybe you even powered through such a simple mechanic on your own without help, due to being such ballers at the game. That's wonderful for you and I'm glad you guys actually enjoy it. More power to you.

However, not every group that tackles content is going to be all buddy-buddy and have voice chat ready to go. I cleared t9, but I still think this is a bad mechanic for the vast majority of the playerbase. Last I heard, something like 3-5% of people were beating coil? This form of mechanic does not mesh well with the DF / pick-up system. Maybe that's partly the player-bases fault (it is), but you still have to realize that this sort of thing is a huge wall for that vast swath of players.

I've been around since 1.0 and gone in blind to many of the encounters in this game. Learning the mechanics is mostly fun and challenging. With this specific one, I had multiple wins and I still didn't fully grasp why we had to run to different positions on the map for divebombs. I'm not exactly slow at picking things up, but this mechanic was something else entirely compared to everything the game throws at you. You die to a landslide, weight of the land, or a leviathan body slam sends you overboard? You know what killed you. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm just not a huge fan of this type of insta-gib out of nowhere stuff.

[MiniTofu]

troll post...

[raelgun]

You're all missing the point.

Last I heard, something like 3-5% of people were beating coil?

Troll post indeed but YOU are missing the point, Yoshi has actually said, that by DESIGN he only expects such small number to clear coil.

You seem to assume that every one should be able to clear content, no you are wrong, everyone has the same access but its meant to be a skill check, its meant to wall you.

This is entirely intended.

[StrejdaTom]

However, not every group that tackles content is going to be all buddy-buddy and have voice chat ready to go. I cleared t9, but I still think this is a bad mechanic for the vast majority of the playerbase. Last I heard, something like 3-5% of people were beating coil? This form of mechanic does not mesh well with the DF / pick-up system. Maybe that's partly the player-bases fault (it is), but you still have to realize that this sort of thing is a huge wall for that vast swath of players.

This will be solved with Alexander Savage and Story mode, I know, that people want them to solve it with T9 but I am not sure if it is happening, maybe in 3.0?
Unfortunately savage mode will provide better gear so I think we can expect people asking for nerfs again even when the story will be the same.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

The divebomb mechanic in t9 is honestly a terrible mechanic.

* In your opinion. Throw away these confusing infographics and learn how the mechanic works by itself. You'll be amazed how simple it is and everybody can do it. For people who do raids in day 1 after release, we find it fun. Challenge is fun. Hard content is good. If you're not a raider/hardcore player yourself, then wait for people to guess the mechanic out. Then study it and do it. Maybe it's because you recently cleared it... and as far as I can tell, you cleared less than 5 times, if not only 1 time. I understand the mechanic might look like a nonsense or "terrible", but when you get used to the fight, T9 is not only fun and it includes 4 fights in 1, but it's still challenging for people. Not even T13 is that complex. I really don't understand why people are so allergic to challenge and difficult content. There's no sense of accomplishment if you faceroll an encounter. Sigh... that's why we can't have nice things...

And it's not about elitism, which is a term mostly used in a wrong way. It's not about "hey, we don't want you to clear it, newb!!! leave that content alone!!!" because most of us will surely help you to clear it. It's about people who find that content fun and challenging. They love it that way.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm just not a huge fan of this type of insta-gib out of nowhere stuff.

You're not alone but you're a minority. But you cleared T9 less than 5 times!!! I explained the mechanic to you. It's not even hard. The first two dragons from 12 o'clock moving clockwise will divebomb together. The reason why you set a marker in the middle is to minimize the area affected by their breath, leaving the center alone from its influence. The dragons come down when Nael uses Bahamut's Favor. Their position change every after Bahamut's Favor. There're three possible combinations and they don't repeat these patterns twice. Set 1 marker where Nael is at the start of the fight. That will be the true north or 12'o clock if finding that direction sounds confusing. Throw the patterns away. Just learn the mechanic and you'll be fine. Heck I even can mark it in few seconds right after Favor.