Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[XionAvalonArcadia]

Ya know, I think Twintania skipped the "Flare" day... like... Aetheric profusion? Really twintania... no wonder you are only an add 2 coils later.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Alright so let me ask you this since you feel FCoB is mundane and WoD isn't. Inwhat FCoB fights are mechanics reused? For every one you state I can guarantee I can prove you wrong. You been through FCoB so you should know all the fights right?

I'm not getting into a pissing match with you, I'm not trying to say FCOB isn't as good as WoD or vice versa, please stop putting implications in my mouth that I am not stating. What I am trying to state is the general idea of the battles in the coils rely on one major principle: organized memorization. Like others have mentioned, very little is actually put into player skill besides being able to be in spot ABC while mechanic XYZ is going on (ie: stack/dodge/placement mechanics), and so on so forth; which honestly if repeated and rehashed is the very definition of mundane and unimaginative.

snip

Again, I state again, I should probably add a third again, so thrice again, I am not--and neither is anyone else in this thread--asking for Coil to be nerfed and/or be made easier. No one in this thread is asking future content to be made easier than Coil content. No one. So please (and this is not directed at you in particular) can we please stop saying that people are saying to make it easier. People want challenges but some people want vastly different types of challenges other than the ones that are presented in the Coil (for future content, not for Coil content as that content is already solidified and they are not even going to consider making a completely new fight for existing content). My example was merely as is, an example, because believe it or not I'm not a developer I was merely trying to spark creative discussion on different ways we could be challenged and technically speaking have a more drastic reward/failure type mechanic is a precision mechanic more than anything, but I am completely disgressing here...

So my challenge to everyone reading this thread is this: If you could create a future content mechanic how would you do? Would you want the same "Divebomb" like move under a new name, a tether mechanic that might function slightly different than the last fight but basically is the same move under a different name? A big damage room-wide blast attack (which all the monsters have) move under a different name? I challenge you, think of something new, something that is not limited to a reliable internet connection and memorization. Can you come up with something new or can you only ridicule someone who is trying to offer new ways to play the game?

[StrejdaTom]

And how can I take this thread seriously when I read 10 times that coil is only about memorization and good internet connection from people who didn't even clear it? (Dont get me wrong, I am only in P4 in T13 yet)

[OMEGA_HACK]

You can take it seriously or not, its a shame you limit insight to experience only as its not the only way to have insight. There is also Knowledge (studying fight by watching videos, reading strategies, keeping up with reddit posts on people offering tips and suggestions, etc etc) those people's insight is just as valid as people who has cleared the content 1-1000000 times. For argumentative sake its the same as applying for a job, employers are looking for people with knowledge OR experience (sometimes both if its a very technical demanding job) as both are valuable assets.

[XionAvalonArcadia]

-snip-

So being AWARE to risky mechanics creates a skill-less fight. So please explain how you gathered all this from the lack of actual experience from these fights? DPS checks, positioning, raid awareness, mechanic awareness and performance and job responsibility are all aspects to raiding. How do you expect to earn a clear without being adept in this? The reason I am comparing this to your WoD examples are based on YOUR use of it. I can tell you have not gotten far through coil since you have yet to use any ACTUAL examples in FCoB. So let me inform you since you yield no experience to these turns.

Turn 10:
Trash: Trash that most people skip in a Metal Gear solid fashion. Pretty fun to watch.
Boss: Fight against an electric cat that requires everyone to be aware of their positioning on an ever shriking field (soft enrage). This fight will have mechanics for tank swaps and raid awareness for people to know when they are needed to participate in a mechanic and when they can not. Over all, simple fight to learn, 5 phases with every other phase adding a new mechanic.

Turn 11:
Trash: Requires to break into 2 groups of two to run a gauntlet. One being magic friendly the other being physical friendly.
Boss: Boss that has a fast mechanic to tank swap, creates a death field under itself to prevent moving through the body, and a field mechanic that cuts the field into portions ever so often. Add phase requires moving in sync and is a dps check. last phase similar to first but adds a mechanic that requires moving in sync and creates the fear due to server lag. Over all, easiest of turns but higher risk.

Turn 12:
Trash: Aint none
Boss: Pheonix, guess the theme of the fight. Phase 1 is bennu placement and stacking mechanic for groups, tank killer mechanic for swapping (Tank, Healer, Dps). Phase 2, rot mechanic(lol to those who never learned it in turn 2). Also a raid wide wipe/cleanse mechanic. Can be done a number of ways but still bennu placements as it happens. Add phase, kill in certain order during a room wide dmg attack that pulses every 15 seconds or so. Again dps check. Last phase, Rot mechanic and debuff managment mechanic. Requires raid awareness for a line mechanic that happens randomly and can be fatal is placed incorrectly. Over all, hate this fight. So much dmg and so much mana use. I play brd so kinda hate ballad. Love da foes.

Turn 13
Trash: Aint none
Boss: Big ole dragon, tank buster no swap. Line mechanic tied with puddle mechanic. 3 fold dmg mechanic that requires spreading and stacking correctly. Phase 2, debuff management and tank buster still. Add mechanic that requires tank awareness to eachothers distance. Phase 3 divebomb start. Divebombs consist of spread/stack mechanic from earlier in the fight WHILE dodging 2 dragons in unset paths. Awareness to outside arena for this one. Add phase, kill in certain order. Adds synergize with eachother so do let it happen. Twintania comes back, adds again. Big old flare attack. Last phase, ahk morns(A.K.A. lol tanks.) Tank stack/dmg managment. cds are highly managed in this phase. spread /stack mechanics and line/puddle mechanic. Both previous 2 have twisters on certain ppl to deal with for raid awareness. so 5 ahk morns and 2 gigaflares later get you the clear. Over all each phase shift has a "flare" mechanic for healer awareness. Fight is fun, brutal and so satisfying when complete. 15 minute long fight that makes and breaks groups.

FCoB overall summary: Hard to pug or static. Challenging to complete. Satisfying to conclude story. Still able to complete with proper management of important raid aspects.

In the end, Content isn't meant for everyone. Get over it. If it's too hard, then its too hard. I have seen this game grow from 1.0. The addition of the towers, ability to get the upgrade components and hunts outside of final coil have created a sense of entitlement. Do the fights, they are not the same as fights you have done. Find a group of 7 other like minded individuals. Form a time to do content, Bam, you made a static. The common theme of this thread is the difficulty of coil and ability to perform "easy" mechanics by people who have not completed the content when it was current. Its your fault you didn't have the iniative or drive. Now they added echo and nerfed content. Its still too hard? Lol, its a game. Some people are better than others, it happens. If you don't like it, Git imdaGud!

[KyrsIsley]

I'm not getting into a pissing match with you, I'm not trying to say FCOB isn't as good as WoD or vice versa, please stop putting implications in my mouth that I am not stating. What I am trying to state is the general idea of the battles in the coils rely on one major principle: organized memorization. Like others have mentioned, very little is actually put into player skill besides being able to be in spot ABC while mechanic XYZ is going on (ie: stack/dodge/placement mechanics), and so on so forth; which honestly if repeated and rehashed is the very definition of mundane and unimaginative.


Again, I state again, I should probably add a third again, so thrice again, I am not--and neither is anyone else in this thread--asking for Coil to be nerfed and/or be made easier. No one in this thread is asking future content to be made easier than Coil content. No one. So please (and this is not directed at you in particular) can we please stop saying that people are saying to make it easier. People want challenges but some people want vastly different types of challenges other than the ones that are presented in the Coil (for future content, not for Coil content as that content is already solidified and they are not even going to consider making a completely new fight for existing content). My example was merely as is, an example, because believe it or not I'm not a developer I was merely trying to spark creative discussion on different ways we could be challenged and technically speaking have a more drastic reward/failure type mechanic is a precision mechanic more than anything, but I am completely disgressing here...

So my challenge to everyone reading this thread is this: If you could create a future content mechanic how would you do? Would you want the same "Divebomb" like move under a new name, a tether mechanic that might function slightly different than the last fight but basically is the same move under a different name? A big damage room-wide blast attack (which all the monsters have) move under a different name? I challenge you, think of something new, something that is not limited to a reliable internet connection and memorization. Can you come up with something new or can you only ridicule someone who is trying to offer new ways to play the game?

Everything can and will become mundane eventually. Unless the boss evolves and gains new skills based on how players are handling the encounter, or has a infinite number of skills/combinations of skills, the encounter will become mundane. Tailoring a strategy for an encounter that is seemingly random and making it into a scripted fight with a finite number of predictable scenarios is precisely how people farm content efficiently.

[Cynfael]

A lot of people in this thread are overlooking the fact that player skill is just as important as the ability to learn and adapt to new mechanics.

Dancing around the screen to avoid or trigger mechanics isn't usually that difficult; doing so while functioning as well as you can takes some practice and skill.

[StrejdaTom]

I cannot agree, watching videos =/= clearing or experiencing all phases of the encounter. I insist on opinion that watching guides didn't even help me, because it gave me almost nothing. You forget half of the mechanics before you even enter the coil + knowing them doesn't help you if you need to react to them fast and alter your positioning according to the situation + do job of someone else if they die or fail to do it etc... Absence of these things in parties of people who only "memorized" it is the main reason why they have problems clearing it.

[Cadmar]

I like Coil. I think it is fun, diverse and offers an adequate challenge. I like the style of fights and most of the mechanics are well thought out and interesting. Going all the way back to first Coil (think T1 feeding slimes or T2 Rot passing without the stupid enrage strat) the mechanics are so much more than just memorization mechanics. Anyone that says otherwise just isn't paying attention.

99% of the time the people complaining about Coil are the ones who don't or can't do it. The people that actually take the time to do it typically enjoy it very much. So please, let us keep enjoying it. We like it.

[kirk]

Can't we all just raid and have fun :O also coil is not for everyone sooo i see no issues with coil mechanics