Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

That's how they set up the game. Everything besides Coil is very casual and welcoming. How can you condemn us for expecting the game to be consistent?

Because it was only added to the DF after you had to go to the location with 7 other people and manually enter it. It's known by the community to be the hardest current content. To not know that it is would require you to throw up serious blinders. It's kind of like asking how you're supposed to know that Dynamis in FFXI was serious Alliance Tier content. If you knew what Dynamis was, you were going to figure it out in short order. The same is true for the Binding Coil, nothing stops you from trying, but you'll learn in a hurry.

And if rude awakenings aren't your thing, I'm sorry. But sometimes that sort of thing happens, you either walk away or accept that a challenge has been put in your lap and soldier on.

[Recaldy]

I felt like they finally struck gold with Stone Vigil HM final boss.

However that kind of telegraphing and randomness hasn't happened since. I find this sad because something like that would make a great EX Trial or coil-like boss.
I think the community's response to that boss was very warm but at this point it doesn't seem like it's the direction they want to take.

I sure do hope Heavansward has fights like that. Current fights are dull.

[Kosmos992k]

That's how they set up the game. Everything besides Coil is very casual and welcoming. How can you condemn us for expecting the game to be consistent? Thank you at least for demonstrating how Coil is creating a toxic atmosphere in this game.

Before I begin, please understand I am not criticizing the players in static teams, I am critical of the entire lockout/loot system and overly tuned content that requires a static team to clear and repeat - not the players.

Static groups were identified in August 2013 by several posters on this forum as toxic to the community because they do several things;

1) segregate the community into haves & have not - (I have a static/I have not got a static)
2) segregate the community into raider/casual, because only those in statics could have a serious chance of clearing even titan HM - back in the day - and *only* players in a static could hope to clear BCOB at all.
3) players were disenfranchised by the strict lockouts and rules that prevent any flexibility in coil static membership

Over time with the EX primals which also required a static to clear for the first 3-6 months (or longer) of their life, SCOB and FCOB which require not only clearing T5, but also having a static, the separation between raiding community and everyone else has grown. Coil gear drops have consistently been the best in slot and highest ilvl in the game further emphasizing the difference between haves and have nots.

The requirement for static teams comes not only from the lockouts on the content, but also the difficulty and razor balance of the content to where a single mistake by anyone causes a wipe. This emphasizes the team dancing (some call it team jump rope) element where the team has to know the exact timing of the encounter and phases and where they should go and when, and execute the dance to perfection or face a wipe. Building that kind of rapport with the team and learning the dance requires a static team who are focused on their static team and it's progress.

Naturally, such teams are not that willing to break up to help others when they finally get the content cleared and 'on farm'. The horrible drop rate and lockouts further reinforce the segregation because even though a team has cleared something, they need to re-run it many times over several weeks/months to ensure that all team members get the drop that they deserve as their reward for helping each other.

That overly tuned content that requires static teams is a problem. It makes this type of content extremely toxic to any players outside a static since a single mistake by anyone causes wipes, and ultimately, static teams are intolerant of players who are slower to get content than others, and gradually the statics become even more insular, despite the fact that most of the content is in DF now, the potential for wipes does tend to keep people in their statics instead of banging their heads off the wall of accidental wipes.

So, fast forward to now. We have a vocal raiding community who believes that coil is easy and anyone can do it, and we have an army of players still gated on T5, never mind the rest of it. There is a huge yawning chasm between these two communities of players, in short the community is split. Unfortunately the haves have a pretty poor view of the have nots, and the have nots have noticed this.

Personally, I hope that the 3.0 expansion addresses some of these issues. having a normal mode version of the raid content - without the gear drops - would go a long way to fixing things, and that is something that has been confirmed in 3.0.

[Zohar_Lahar]

So what you're saying is that there should be NO hardcore content whatsoever, or if they do they have to put up warning signs saying "HEY LOOK AT THIS HARD CONTENT DON'T COME CLOSE" at every mention of that content? I would hope that people can think enough so SE wouldn't have to resort to that to get some message across. Item level requirements for Second Coil Turns 3 and 4 are higher than any other instance in the game, that should say enough.

The Extreme primals are a good example of the difficulty being advertised by quest and duty finder. By contrast, the quests leading into Crystal Tower and the Coils don't really give you any reason to think one would be significantly harder than the other, or anything you did up until then. The fact that people went on about how second coil was "easy" after 2.41 did not help things at all for those who didn't clear T5.

[ziddyt]

So, let me get this straight, you are stating that there are players who are jerks to others in-game because they are upset that some random person on the Internet went to SE's forum and asked for something to be made easier?

Really?

I mean, really?

Holy crap, talk about a razor thin justification for poor behavior.

Just like your razor thin justification of kicking fc members for selling runs because it "promotes rmt?"

[ziddyt]

The Extreme primals are a good example of the difficulty being advertised by quest and duty finder. By contrast, the quests leading into Crystal Tower and the Coils don't really give you any reason to think one would be significantly harder than the other, or anything you did up until then. The fact that people went on about how second coil was "easy" after 2.41 did not help things at all for those who didn't clear T5.

So, you figure out that fighting Primals is going to be somewhat difficult... And then it doesn't occur to you that the raid questline featuring THE primal would maybe follow in the same vein?

[Kosmos992k]

Just like your razor thin justification of kicking fc members for selling runs because it "promotes rmt?"

Since you know nothing about the reasons for the decisions made beyond what I posted about run selling in another topic, I would advise you to leave it alone. I would also suggest that bringing that topic up here is intentionally inflammatory and attempting to incite an argument.


...and that's all you're getting from me on that.


...popcorn sales decline.

[hallena]

The Extreme primals are a good example of the difficulty being advertised by quest and duty finder. By contrast, the quests leading into Crystal Tower and the Coils don't really give you any reason to think one would be significantly harder than the other, or anything you did up until then. The fact that people went on about how second coil was "easy" after 2.41 did not help things at all for those who didn't clear T5.

But it was easy. Just not dungeon easy where you can do it while eating and watching a movie.
This problem only exist because the non raiding playerbase is used to dungeons/crystal tower being a snorefest. They don't prepare them for anything that require even a minimum amount of thinking. And when there is something that is somewhat difficult, there's no reason to get better because enough complaining will get it nerfed anyway.

[Selli]

*Gets some popcorn*

[StrejdaTom]

So if major part of content is easy, everything should be easy and doable on first try. Amright?
Sorry that there is a part of community which wants to progress a things for a while, should we just move on because we are infesting your game with elitism?