Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[KarstenS]

everything's a group effort.. No room for a hero.

So you say that is a bad thing in a multiplayer game? I disagree.

[GenJoe]

So you say that is a bad thing in a multiplayer game? I disagree.

depends on the type of content.
Having to test my luck with 7 randoms and being at the mercy of them knowing what to do isn't my cup of tea.

Getting a static together to tackle it one by one, learning as we go, that does sound fun. But I'd rather save that for the end-game raids, rather than for every damn encounter..

It's just very tedious to have to do that for every content though.

Right now, FF14 only has one type of dungeon mechanic that is all based on prior knowledge of the fight, not personal skill. Of course skill is pre-requisite, but not your main tool in winning a fight. Only way casual content vs. hardcore content differ is that we outgear the casual content by 40 item levels and the dungeon's wipe mechanics just diminish in effectiveness.. So, in truth, it's the same mechanic after all, the casual stuff just happens to have lower gear check.

Simply put, none of the ff14 raid/dungeons feel dynamic and alive.. Only time I ever felt that was my first time in Wanderer's Palace and that was probably only because it was so rushed I had no time to process it all.. but it sure was fun... if I do it again, I think it would feel very routine..

[KarstenS]

Of course skill is pre-requisite, but not your main tool in winning a fight.

You should do actual, not nerfed, not echoed, not overgeared raid content. Not performing your class close to optimum will lead to endless wipes as like not handling mechanics correct.

Do try to read a post to the end rather than cherry-picking quotes, he does actually make one very good point.This is probably my biggest gripe with most of the mechanics. There's very little margin for error.

I read it to the end. But the other stuff is circling around that cherry, that I picked. The point of your statement too.

Some skills aren't even telegraphed, with your only indicator being a tiny target on a random player

I remember back, long ago in WoW. There were no indicators at all. And now?

[GenJoe]

You should do actual, not nerfed, not echoed, not overgeared raid content. Not performing your class close to optimum will lead to endless wipes as like not handling mechanics correct.

I have a few times, unfortunately not many because I started in end of 2.4.
But after having beaten the content once, does the second time even provide 60% of the initial challenge? No, because the difficulty comes from your unfamiliarity, not your skill.

It's a simple math, if first time you felt a standardized challenge level of 1. Second time is .5, your ability to play the game did not double, in fact, your skill probably didn't even improve all that much if you've been pushing the end-game contents this whole time, your skills are already at peak, only difference between run #1 and run #2? Experience.

Again, I'm not saying that's a bad model, for statics that's actually a pretty good model because you can all experience the content together step by step and building up the blocks to beat the content. I just think that model is not ideal for something you might use a dungeon finder for.

Just think how many patrol mobs this game has, how many dynamic disables you can use to your advantage (i.e. stunning a patrol that's on your way, sleeping it, etc.) everything is predictable, and for most of the fights, there's even a designated tanking spot, so every boss fight, if done "right", is the exact same as the last one. Except for gear, none of the dungeons have any replayability.

[Gardes]

Just think how many patrol mobs this game has, how many dynamic disables you can use to your advantage (i.e. stunning a patrol that's on your way, sleeping it, etc.) everything is predictable, and for most of the fights, there's even a designated tanking spot, so every boss fight, if done "right", is the exact same as the last one. Except for gear, none of the dungeons have any replayability.

Because despite whinging about the game's scripted battle and begging for dynamic mechanics, people can't handle either. Either they're delusional or hypocritical. Easy example is stone vigil hard's last boss. It's basically a super lenient dual Rajang fight. All you need to do is constantly position yourself out of the first boss's way while constantly keeping an eye of the 2nd boss. I've done ALOT of solo queues on this dungeon when it's still on extreme roulette and the majority of the players cant handle this fight without getting slapped around. Of course, since they're not actually lethal, you can have the healer to fix all of these players' mistakes.

It leaves me baffled honestly, to see people go "I can't handle scripted fights but i'm asking for dynamic fights, but I know I can't actually handle that so I'm gonna ask for reduced damage to compensate so none of the mechanics can't kill me but so that I don't look like I suck when I ask for this, I'm gonna cite some hard action games I enjoy". I have this exact person in my fc who would whine about this day in day out and when some of us in the fc got monster hunter 4u, we played with him and...the only thing he mastered at the game seems to be the art of carting.

[StrejdaTom]

Snip, snippity, snip.

People like you need more likes, problem is, that instead of using "honest" people rather use "elitist." Some beings can't handle truth.

[GenJoe]

Because despite whinging about the game's scripted battle and begging for dynamic mechanics, people can't handle either. Either they're delusional or hypocritical. Easy example is stone vigil hard's last boss. It's basically a super lenient dual Rajang fight. All you need to do is constantly position yourself out of the first boss's way while constantly keeping an eye of the 2nd boss. I've done ALOT of solo queues on this dungeon when it's still on extreme roulette and the majority of the players cant handle this fight without getting slapped around. Of course, since they're not actually lethal, you can have the healer to fix all of these players' mistakes.

That's actually a good point, but noobs will be noobs..
I've seen my fair share of ineptitude in pve contents, and I think that comes from the fact that majority of the player base in FF14 is not your typical mmo crowd, and the console players also contribute to the pool as well. I'm not saying that console players are noobs, but if you see somebody who can't turn their characters around and move at the same time (Unfortunately, I've had to see tanks like this close to lv 50) you know they're not playing on a keyboard and mouse..

But, I think the game still needs 2 different approaches to going about providing difficulty in pve. Raids and dungeons should be different in nature, but in this game, they are not. Because the core mechanics all rely on the same thing.

I'm curious as to your definition of skill. It seems maybe you are confusing it with talent.

Do you honestly believe a major league slugger was just born like that? Or does the hours upon days of learning from failure (striking out) impact his play?

Success is when the product of your skill and talent exceed a threshold defined by the task. You need both. Skill as a word is closer to experience.

It's the difference between being a strategist vs. a fighter. I feel like in this game, we just become better at strategizing, not the actual fighting part. Not even a legitimate strategy at that, I feel like we're constantly finding loopholes to make the boss mechanics null, almost like finding exploits. It just isn't much fun when every fight pans out the same way.

[Lemuria]

I remember back, long ago in WoW. There were no indicators at all. And now?

I don't believe any of them were instant wipe mechanics.

[Lemuria]

So you say that is a bad thing in a multiplayer game? I disagree.

Do try to read a post to the end rather than cherry-picking quotes, he does actually make one very good point.

But in this game, such opportunities are rare. One person screws up, RESET!

This is probably my biggest gripe with most of the mechanics. There's very little margin for error. Some skills aren't even telegraphed, with your only indicator being a tiny target on a random player, easily missed in the mass of adds and other fight mechanics. Sometimes you don't even get that.

How many people can honestly say they entered a piece of content, fought it and LEARNED the mechanics instead of being told what they are? Hell, some of the mechanics are so obscure you wonder how people ever figured out what they were. I'm looking at you, Twintania's Twister. I'm willing to bet most people read guides before playing, or were taught in-game by friends who had run it before.

Those few who ran it and learned everything first hand, I salute them. They're the true masters of the game.