Why is Square Enix not listening to this forum?

[Yumi_umi]

They removed it because healers are extremely tanky, cc machines, healing machines and on top of that also did a stupid amount of damage in any situation

in otherwords, they removed it because it was overpowered, they still kick out reasonable damage if they want to

They were cc machines back when everyone was new, now everyone has access to purify. In FL repose is a joke compared to sleep from a blm cuz chances r someone woke up ur target. In WD only good healers survived as they'd get shutdown if the enemy team had some co ordination.
Healers are the tank of this pvp which i agree with lol
I kick out piss damage even if i wanted to do tons of damage now.
The CS just makes a huge difference.

[Cidolfas86]

So when i look at the kills leaderboard after a game and actually see 15 blackmages at the top with 10:1 K/D, while seeing 10 melees at the bottom with 2:6 K/D, its not broken?

This is more systemic of the bad class balance going on in PvP than the game mode though. 72 man Slaughter just kind of brought it to the forefront for those that didn't notice it before.

[Mendalas]

Has anybody mentioned that Yoshi-P himself is a huge pvp'er... It's interesting that he's not pushing more attention towards it. I suspect that the dev team is just so incredibly swamped with the expansion in general. Who knows, maybe they will surprise us with some changes going forward. Like many people are saying in this thread already, there is some very minor changes that could be done that could improve pvp immensely. However, I would like to see some huge changes as well since we all know it could use an overhaul. I absolutely loved pvp'ing in WoW. It was some of the best times that I've had in an mmo thus far and I would love to see it become more popular in this game.

[CeveArthu]

Has anybody mentioned that Yoshi-P himself is a huge pvp'er... It's interesting that he's not pushing more attention towards it. I suspect that the dev team is just so incredibly swamped with the expansion in general. Who knows, maybe they will surprise us with some changes going forward. Like many people are saying in this thread already, there is some very minor changes that could be done that could improve pvp immensely. However, I would like to see some huge changes as well since we all know it could use an overhaul. I absolutely loved pvp'ing in WoW. It was some of the best times that I've had in an mmo thus far and I would love to see it become more popular in this game.

Yoshi constantly says this when asked anything about pvp

not once has he backed that claim up, not even once

[PlumpyMcduff]

@EVERYONE

We need your HELP to bump & support this thread in GD to get Dev's attention toward the PVP Forum, please & thank you:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...VP-Forum-today

This is more systemic of the bad class balance going on in PvP than the game mode though. 72 man Slaughter just kind of brought it to the forefront for those that didn't notice it before.

Class Balance is actually great.

Individual Class Balance is.

The problem is when you have that degree of burst concentrated x10.

Same with like how stacking healers was an issue earlier on (and still can be, to a lesser extent).

SE's done an impeccable job balancing PVP since release, actually.

It's just a matter of them now needing to apply a holistic debuff on repeated effects of the same kind.

For instance, a stacking resistance to damage of a certain type when taken from multiple of the same source-type.

Ex. 5 BLM's pummeling with Flare, each consecutive BLM cast gets progressively weaker on the target(s) for a short duration.

Same could be applied to numerous Medica II's but in reverse. Each application of Medica II after the first has reduced effectiveness.

Plenty of games counteract this; it isn't Class Balance that's the issue--that's simply incorrect.

[Xenosan]

The class balancing isn't the problem, and I hope they don't continue nerf/balance fixes. That is the wrong fix

The problem is 72player slaughter and how the match plays out. It's terrible. 24player slaughter is great, but the 72 version needs a rework. 72player slaughter mode is broken broken broken.

Just compare 72 Secure to 72 Slaughter. The secure match mode plays out well with incentive to coordinate but Slaughter is just junk. In Slaughter a kill gives a point regardless of whether the enemy faction is from faction A or B, there's no methodology to winning. It's just zerg-button-smash > am I still alive? > If yes, zerg-button-smash > hope for win.

[Cidolfas86]

Class Balance is actually great.

The class balancing isn't the problem, and I hope they don't continue nerf/balance fixes. That is the wrong fix

I beg to differ, and I'm not just speaking of 72 man slaughter here, more like PvP in general. The system they've set up is basically a rock beats scissors beats paper loop sort of deal that discourages soloing and 1vs1 which I actually like a lot, but it really could use some work.

Tanks, the actual tanks and not healers: They have no real way to defend allies outside of some very long cool downs and stun botting until resistances are built up. And even then only one of the tanks is actually capable of stun botting. Your basically a waste of space at that point once resistance is built up compared to an actual Dps/healer/whatever because its so easy to just CC a tank into non-existence. They need to give tanks a way to defend allies that doesn't revolve around stunning and long CD's otherwise your just a really weak dps that's ignored until everyone else is dead. Tanks need to be able to tank. That's one of the biggest problems I see right now.

Mages: They have no good ways to peel off melee once resistances have built up on their CCs. It doesn't help that a dps LB can basically one shot you if you aren't in a VIT build. Add in the fact that auto-attacks can interrupt spell casting and it only gets worse. You'll basically be at the mercy of a healer if they aren't getting bum-rushed themselves, or if there's even one present at all lol. Smart play and premades help, but once your chosen as tribute and marked for sacrifice your probably done for, especially if dps is smart enough to focus the healers first.

Healers: I think we agree here sorta. Healers have the largest effect of any job on the outcome a fight-especially before the cleric stance/holy spam nerf. An alli with 3 healers spamming AoE and targeted heals is almost unkillable if skilled. I would be more up in arms about it if weren't for that fact that >>> see below

Melee and Dps in general: They do way too much damage. Especially burst dmg jobs like DRG which I main, BLM, even a well played ninja with trick attack. A team of 2-3 DRGs can make short order of most jobs in the game with all the CDs that you get especially if your focusing people down. And I think most are familiar with what a entire alliance of BLMs are capable of at this point, no explanations needed here. I'd give them more flack if it weren't for that fact that >>>> see below.

Crowd Control: The built up resistances reset way faster then they really ought to. It makes for a rough time for non-Fetter Ward anything really. Even the fetter ward jobs have it rough once its on cool down. I'm guessing this is the way it is because mages aren't really given adequate peel-off skills. You could make the invulnerability phase longer, but doing so would screw over a lot of the mages hard, since again mages can't peel very well.

I've had the pleasure of playing most of these angles in PvP at length and I've seen all of this happen time and time again. Now is this 100% part of the problem with PvP or slaughter in general? Of course not. I think there's been enough threads pointing out many of the slaughter game modes flaws that most who look at it with a critical eye can agree its broken. I don't need to really repeat them here. But to deny that class balance isn't a problem or playing a rather large part of whats going on is certainly not seeing the forest for the trees.

Right now a small proposal fix I've been mulling over is:

Add an "aggression meter". Basically it brings an enmity mechanics into PvP. Obviously any class could make use of this, but it would actually allow tanks to, ya know, tank. The inspiration for the idea comes from street fighter alpha and basically it works in a similar manner to guard crush. Once I've built up enough enmity or "aggression" on someone it gives you a status effect that forces you to target that person for a set amount of time (lets say 5-10 seconds) and it can't be purified. Once my aggression has reached its peak and I'm forced to target someone my aggression resets on anyone who was targeting me. With a system like this you could protect vulnerable players from getting ganged up on, or forcing WHMs into targeting you instead of healing team mates. You could even add enmity or "aggression" shedding abilities to mages and aggression building skills to tanks.

Similarly provoke needs to instantly force someone to target you. It actually used to work that way in FF11 pvp and I see no reason why it couldn't work here.

I think something like this could add more depth then just zerg zerg zerg and introduce an interesting new meta game to PvP. It certainly would go a long way toward balancing the rock-paper-scissors they got going on and you could actually shield vulnerable mages, keep people from being focused down by coordinated groups, and possibly tone down CC spells this way.

[Sinsain]

I don't really see Slaughter as being broken really. Things only are hectic when mages coordinate LBs and rack those kills in 72. In 24, it's not THAT big of an issue, but it's still there. The other issues I see with PVP personally is Status resists resetting fairly quickly, but there's workarounds. The biggest issue with PVP is Queue Times, PVP Ranks, Skill Point usage and Incentive to keep playing past Rank 44.

Slaughter is completely broken for melees. You either sit around waiting for someone to run into your blob, or do a suicide run into an enemy blob.

Zerg vs zerg vs ANOTHER zerg isnt at all well thought out imo. (IMO).

at least in secure mode you can be semi tactical.

[Anakin]

Guyz guyz guyz guyz...

For now , SE have to work on their queue system.

Then and only then , we gonna talk seriously about class etc etc.

If they change something , in something good : u still gonna make 4 fights each evening.

Start by the beginning pls.

[Buff_Archer]

Maybe this is a big part of their long term plan for having Grand Companies exist... however sometimes plans don't work out as expected ajd need to change. I didn't play v1.0 but I heard that a major problem was the developers didn't listen to player feedback about things that weren't working out and stubbornly stayed the course... if that is true, how is this no different?