FFXIV and Party Setup.

[Lemuria]

And those games have very basic fights and unbalanced classes and boring structure in the fights, they don't allow for more complex mechanics that allows all classes to be viable in the content.

Complex mechanics? Since when? FFXIV is probably the simplest of the MMO's I've played. Telegraphed attacks allow you to move out of the way in advance, boss fights are more of a memory game than actual skill-based combat and all hints at complexity vanish into the ether when you're faced with a crowd of 'trash mobs' and just gather them into one big pile to blow up.

If you think that equates to complex, then don't play FFXI. Enemies of equal level were powerhouses capable of tearing apart all but the mightiest of solo classes. Each individual trash enemy often had its own unique mechanics to be concerned about as well, and they were not always telegraphed or predictable. Anyone who has felt the force of a goblin bomb misfire will know that agony.

Now, I will agree that not all classes are great in all content in FFXI. But then, not all classes are great in all FFXIV content either. There has already been much talk about Summoner being considered under-powered versus Black Mages or how Monks basically rule the melee scene. When it comes to large groups of mobs, Warrior tends to have a better time keeping aggro over Paladin due to Overpower, and when there's a boss which hits hard, Paladin has a commanding presence over Warrior.

The problem with trying to make all jobs equal is that they ultimately become a grey meaningless sludge indistinguishable from any other class. Having superiority in one area or another doesn't necessarily have to make that job more favored as long as the balance remains by weakening them in other types of content. That, more than any other reason, is why I love the idea of support classes.

Though I admit it would be difficult to fit it into FFXIV given the current game landscape, I also feel the game needs to change if it wants to stay fun and relevant. There's only so much grey sludge you can be fed before it becomes boring which is why there's so much hope for Heavensward. We've grown tired of our sludge and want something with a bit more flavour.

[raelgun]

Complex mechanics? Since when?

One question, have you cleared final coil without buying clears or getting boosted in T5, T9 and T13?

[Kosmos992k]

.So you have options:
1) Design encounters with Support in mind as a role, and deal with player complaints of the queues being too long (not to mention taking longer since the Support will do less damage)
2) Design encounters to not take them into account and allow it to be flexible, which means the encounters are now much more dull to take into account that groups may not always have a support.

The other issue that *will* arise is that as people overgear content, the need for a support class disappears as players begin ignoring mechanics that otherwise might need support to mitigate. Personally I hate the way people ignore mechanics, but then I am a relatively undergeared tank who can't quite ignore things the way that others can.

[Ghishlain]

While I personally don't mind having a support role, I can appreciate meshing the support aspect it into a DPS class that has slightly lower DPS with higher support options. Add a "fourth" support role will just exasperate the queue situation as for every one person who enjoys playing support, there will be at least 10-20 other people who just want to SMASH THAT MONSTERS FACE IN (DPS).

If queues went to 1 Tank / Healer / DPS / Support the wait times for DPS would become atrocious.
If dungeons would be altered to be 1 Tank / 1 Healer / 1 Support / 2 DPS, I could see it working out but I anticipate there will be three "bottlenecks" now instead of two.

Even in XI, parties would be held up on "support". BRD, COR, RDM were treasured and hard to come by for leveling during the 75-era. Shout groups for Tojil would bottle neck at finding a 3-4 song BRD and they would be shouting for HOURS just to get one of these.

In XIV, you even see it here with PuG PFs for Coil - most parties hang when trying to get tanks, healers, and Bards (the closest thing we'd get to a support class in the current iteration of this game)

While I would like to see the role itself, I don't think it'll mesh well with the current structure of the game.

With the being said, let's wait to see what Heavensward brings. S-E has put Machinist down as a DPS/Support hybrid like Bard and Astrologian has the potential to be a support based healer based on the fact they have card buffs. If they continue this route of "roles that have more support abilities than normal", it would fit the game format better.

[Risvertasashi]

One question, have you cleared final coil without buying clears or getting boosted in T5, T9 and T13?

I'm not sure he's even done recent EX primals. I mean he uses trash mobs as his comparison of XI and XIV xD

[Anarnee]

I don't really care for the idea of adding support. I love how the game has been balanced, and I love that EVERY class has the means to DPS, and every class has a means to support the team. I don't want that balance to be undone and I'm happy with the current composition of our parties.

[Myrhn]

Beside the lack of support abilities overall, I hate more the dps. Specially the mnks and mantra, I hardly see any mnk using it. Sure u may say is not needed to survive but it really helps. How I see it healers and tanks would benefit the most with new support abilities but the dps would hardy use them.

[Risvertasashi]

I think "pure" support could be pretty cool... I just don't see it fitting in XIV.

[Conradus]

Support classes create a rather troubling dynamic: They tend to be terrible at soloing compared to other classes.
<snip>
So rather than building support classes, our DPS classes have support options.
Remember: This is not FFXI. And after playing it quite a bit recently, I'm glad for that.

But FFXI had the premier example of a support class that could also be a great soloer: Red Mage.

[Kaisha]

But FFXI had the premier example of a support class that could also be a great soloer: Red Mage.

RDM solo was only for show/prestige. It wasn't efficient by any remote stretch of the means when everything of value took 30min+ to defeat, via a variety of methods, some of which abuse faults in the game engine.