Red Mage

[Gunspec]

Red mage in its "classic" form won't work, because it will just be casting fire, blizzard, thunder, and cure, cure2, regen. Yes, I like the Red Mage outfit and hope it ends up in FFXIV someday, but people are either dreaming up the most boring class ever (gimped black mage/ white mage combo) or designing something in their heads that isn't really a "classic" red mage.

As for blue mage, let's get that in the game. Enemy magic would do well to COMPLEMENT the spells we already have in the game. So... how about Blue Mage is a questline, similar to the moogle mail quests, where we gain access to Blue Magic as a CROSS CLASS skill line? Blue mage abilities could fall into damage, tanking, and healing categories, and it would be entirely up to players which abilities they want to slot at anytime. As we "level up" Blue Mage, we gain some blue mage glamor gear and pick up a passive talent or two. Thousand needles, Lv 5 confuse, choco meteor, the awesome class/ ability combos are endless.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

First you'd have to program interesting enemy skills to begin with. What we have right now is pure trash that's not worth learning.

[LineageRazor]

I hear folks requesting Red Mage or Blue Mage or whatever and saying, "They'd better make it like it was in <insert game here>." or "They'd better not make it like it was in <insert game here>." or "They'd better not screw it up like they did <insert FFXIV job here>." That kind of thinking is BOUND to lead to disappointment. Folks need to accept that FFXIV is a different game than other games in the Final Fantasy series. It, like FF's before it, presents its own new interpretation of the Final Fantasy classics, tailored to fit into the game's structure.

As such, if RDM is added, don't expect it to be a TRUE jack-of-all-trades; it will fit firmly into the structure of the Tank/Healer/DPS trinity used in this game - there's no way that the devs would consider the addition of just one job (even a fan favorite like RDM) to be worth all that, and convincing them that we'd accept nothing less would be a great way to ensure we never see it at all!

Nevertheless, it could well have a nod to its versatility in previous games. It could be a DPS job with a healing stance, for instance, just like healers and their Cleric's Stance (heck, maybe they'll even be able to cross-class it), or maybe it'll have a minor cure on a sixty second timer; enough to provide a little support, but far from what would be needed to completely take over a healer's role in a pinch.

[dice137]

The problem with RDM in XIV is that for it to be implemented in a way that fits into the game's clear-cut holy trinity structure, you'll have to effectively remove most of what even makes a RDM what it is. If you give it the ability to choose between a healer or DPS flag for party content... that's too OP because you'll always have an extra healer and/or DPS than what the content was designed for. If we just give it some equivalent to Cleric Stance, we run back into the same problem of "it wouldn't really be a jack-of-all-trades anymore". It'd... kinda just be SMN if it had CS and some more healing skills.

We also have the issue of most other DPS classes giving party buffs (or enemy debuffs) that a RDM would be known for providing in other FFs. Between all DPS DoTs, BRD's songs, and whatever buffs MCH is bringing to the table... What's left for RDM to be able to do and NOT come off as redundant? Or worse -- useless? I also apply this same entire argument to people wanting the implementation of BLU. I don't get how it could be introduced into XIV's combat style and trinity system without either making it terribly OP or terribly redundant/non-unique, ALL while keeping it well within the confines of what makes a BLU feel like a BLU.

I've tried searching for dev opinions on adding hybrid jobs to XIV... but all I've found are conflicting statements. So I'm not entirely sure what to believe when it comes to their actual thoughts on the matter of ever implementing them.

[Myrhn]

I would like to see rdm as a dps-support job. Having a dps rotation or something on gcd while having some healer and support abilities off gcd with a resonable timer. That way they would be a dps job with capabilities of healing on oh shit moment and supporting the party. I think that would be the more interesting way of doing rdm in my opinion.

[LineageRazor]

Snip.

Well, if we're going to talk about redundancy, that's pretty much at the very core of this game. EVERY job is redundant, by design. Outside of a bare few situations, any job of a given role can be replaced by any other job of a given role. Barring min-maxers' arguments about optimization, you can swap out your SMN for a MNK, your SCH for a WHM, your WAR for a PLD, and still do just fine. Only raids upset this balance (for instance, in places where you absolutely need to have a source of Silence, or where Stoneskin alone won't save the day and Sacred Soil plus Succor is needed as well), and even in those cases, once the raids get opened up to the general public they get nerfs to offset that (such as ADS's paralyze no longer being unremovable).

Whatever role RDM fills in this game, it won't be a role that could not be filled by some other job. The same can be said for ANY new job added to the game. New jobs will be doing the same things old jobs do. Healers will heal. Tanks will tank. DPS will DPS. To escape it would require a substantial change in the design philosophy for FFXIV where ANY job will do, so long as you fit the requisite number of tanks, healers, and DPS.

Whether this means RDM can't exist in this game without betraying the core meaning of being a Red Mage depends entirely on what you consider that core meaning to be. Personally, I'm pretty versatile in my opinion of what RDM is: it should wield a sword, preferably a fencing sword, and it should be able to cast both white and black magic. Beyond that, the sky's pretty much the limit. The white and black magic don't have to be spells used by other jobs, for example - I'm not married to the notion that RDM MUST be able to cast Blizzard and Fire, just like BLMs do, or cast Cure just like WHMs do; they can have their own brand of white and black magic. Or even just magic-like job abilities, like CNJ's Fluid Aura. They don't have to be masters of status spells, like they were in FFXI. They don't have to have enspells, though I personally think that would be a good idea if the plan is to make them DPS.

[SendohJin]

The problem with RDM in XIV is that for it to be implemented in a way that fits into the game's clear-cut holy trinity structure, you'll have to effectively remove most of what even makes a RDM what it is.

a RDM Tank would retain almost all of what makes a RDM a RDM. Melee Fencer with Black and White Magic spells.

it doesn't have to cast Fire for as much damage as a BLM, it doesn't have to Cure for as much as a WHM, it just needs to do both of those things while generating hate and not dying. Hate generation is easy, you can add that to any ability.

between Phalanx + Spike effects + Stoneskin + self cures + high Parry with the fencing swords, not dying should not be all that difficult either.

[dice137]

That's all well and fine, I suppose. I still don't see the place for a hybrid class in XIV without running into some serious design pitfalls in terms of how the content is currently balanced. At least, I can't really see it working well at this current time, personally. Perhaps something about the game will change in the future to accommodate such a thing better.

[Teslo]

That's all well and fine, I suppose. I still don't see the place for a hybrid class in XIV without running into some serious design pitfalls in terms of how the content is currently balanced. At least, I can't really see it working well at this current time, personally. Perhaps something about the game will change in the future to accommodate such a thing better.

People seem to be missing that you don't have to make it hybrid to keep the feel of having both Black and White magic (In addition to being a melee damage dealer).

Imagine a Job that leaps into combat with a single sword. Expertly flowing from one flourishing combo to the next, using TP to power its attacks. TP starts running low... The fabulously dressed combatant in red takes a moment to concentrate as an elemental aura surrounds his weapon. The Red Mage switches to his primary attack stance (Burst phase people, keep up) and unleashes a new set of strikes that blast away at his foe using the power imbued on his weapon. A powerful upward slash forces him into a backflip (Let's call this Rising Slash) and as he lands he launches a powerful blast of elemental energy (Which combos in to Aetherblast) before executing a charging thrust (ends the combo with Piercing Charge). MP is used to power these attacks and this is where the Red Mage will be popping cooldowns to maximize damage. When MP is exhausted the RDM switches to his recharge phase by executing TP moves, once again dealing physical damage, giving his MP time to regen.

So that sounds cool and all, but what about the healing? Good question! Here's where we take a hint from Cleric Stance, only instead of it being called "Cleric Stance" we call it something like "Aethershift". Now, instead of dealing extra elemental damage with each attack, the Red Mage is applying healing to everyone in the party with each attack. Rising Slash heals the party for a % of damage dealt, Aetherblast turns into an AoE heal with a potency of 80 (or whatever), and Piercing Charge applies a minor regen effect to everyone in the group (that lasts about as long as another rotation in the MP phase). This ability would also swap your INT for MND while it's active.

Obviously the healing aspect of the job would have to be tweaked so that it's supportive, but not overpowered. This would be a great way to trade off some DPS to allow healers to rest during a stressful fight. Give healers a little more breathing room if they die during a boss.

In addition to these rotations, the RDM would have cooldowns. Most of these cooldowns would affect the party instead of just the RDM, such as Haste, a 10 - 15 second Skillspeed/Spellspeed/GCD reduction on a 5 minute cooldown. Or Refresh which would be a lot like a party-wide Shroud of Saints (Without the Aggro reduction).

Again, these would all need to be balanced so that the job doesn't step on toes, but I think it would fit in nicely this way.

Yeah, I realize that I'm bad at laying this out like a "Job proposal" but I find that imagining how it would work is more constructive than planning out specifics such as the level at which each skill is acquired. :P

Another idea I was toying with involved giving the Red Mage certain attacks or spells based on the Cross-Class spells he equips, but I think that might be overreaching and a little too complex for the current system. :P

[DarkStar]

-snip-

I'd play it.