Is it time for SE to give PLDs a good bump in terms of DPS?

[Syfer22]

All DPS aren't of equal value. BRD do generally less DPS but have far more raid utility, BLM do a lot more on AoE, etc...

Balance is more than just personnal damage numbers.

And then there's class synergy, like BRD versus BRD attacking a Disemboweled target.

[SirTaint]

All DPS aren't of equal value. BRD do generally less DPS but have far more raid utility, BLM do a lot more on AoE, etc...

Balance is more than just personnal damage numbers.

Equal value. Not sure how else to read that. DPS+Raid utility they are all very even. Some do more DPS, so some more utility.

[Reynhart]

Some do more DPS, so some more utility.

It's the same for tanks.
With the new skills (As far as we know), having a PLD will reduce damage taken for the whole raid.

[SirTaint]

Sure, but they can't make tanks so different that content is not doable with any combo. Think about 2.0 when people would bail in DF if both tanks were WARs and most coil groups were double PLD.

SE is designing jobs so they all bring similar benefits to the raid as a whole.

[Paikis]

Sure, but they can't make tanks so different that content is not doable with any combo. Think about 2.0 when people would bail in DF if both tanks were WARs and most coil groups were double PLD.

SE is designing jobs so they all bring similar benefits to the raid as a whole.

2.0 where playing WAR took some skill, gear, timing and class knowledge. Coil was completely doable with a WAR MT, and I know this because I did it. Doing it as a WAR wasn't face-roll easy like it was with the Paladin though, so a mediocre PLD could do it, but it took a good WAR to keep up... and there weren't many.

[SpookyGhost]

2.0 where playing WAR took some skill, gear, timing and class knowledge. Coil was completely doable with a WAR MT, and I know this because I did it. Doing it as a WAR wasn't face-roll easy like it was with the Paladin though, so a mediocre PLD could do it, but it took a good WAR to keep up... and there weren't many.

You got carried by exceptional healers (source: WAR'd up to T5, realized I was literally just stressing out my healers, switched to PLD until WAR got buffed). WAR took 0 skill - you sat on 5 stacks, waited for a big hit, and then hit IB. Then you built 5 again to repeat the same process. Path didn't even exist, Vengeance didn't exist outside of just popping it on CD or for big packs to do more damage, SC was a waste of Wrath unless you had Infuriate after spending the 5 Wrath on SC because of how Wrath used to work, etc. etc. You were basically playing with a penalty with a WAR in the party, which wasn't a very good feeling when you chose WAR as your main.

Thankfully all that changed, though it did sort of homogenize the two tanks rather than make WAR's mitigation more unique/meaningful. That's a completely different discussion, though, so I guess we should be happy they're changing things up a bit for all 3 tanks in the expansion.

[Kaonis]

You got carried by exceptional healers (source: WAR'd up to T5, realized I was literally just stressing out my healers, switched to PLD until WAR got buffed). WAR took 0 skill - you sat on 5 stacks, waited for a big hit, and then hit IB. Then you built 5 again to repeat the same process. Path didn't even exist, Vengeance didn't exist outside of just popping it on CD or for big packs to do more damage, SC was a waste of Wrath unless you had Infuriate after spending the 5 Wrath on SC because of how Wrath used to work, etc. etc. You were basically playing with a penalty with a WAR in the party, which wasn't a very good feeling when you chose WAR as your main.

This. I played a WAR pre-2.1 also. Switched to PLD and it was noticeable instantly how much less damage I took. Literally every person I hear claiming WAR MT is as viable as PLD ignores the good and incredibly overgeared healers with them. The argument is kind of lost when a healer claims healing a WAR is just fine when they are about 95%+ BIS.

[Paikis]

You got carried by exceptional healers (source: WAR'd up to T5, realized I was literally just stressing out my healers, switched to PLD until WAR got buffed). WAR took 0 skill - you sat on 5 stacks, waited for a big hit, and then hit IB. Then you built 5 again to repeat the same process. Path didn't even exist, Vengeance didn't exist outside of just popping it on CD or for big packs to do more damage, SC was a waste of Wrath unless you had Infuriate after spending the 5 Wrath on SC because of how Wrath used to work, etc. etc. You were basically playing with a penalty with a WAR in the party, which wasn't a very good feeling when you chose WAR as your main.

Thankfully all that changed, though it did sort of homogenize the two tanks rather than make WAR's mitigation more unique/meaningful. That's a completely different discussion, though, so I guess we should be happy they're changing things up a bit for all 3 tanks in the expansion.

This. I played a WAR pre-2.1 also. Switched to PLD and it was noticeable instantly how much less damage I took. Literally every person I hear claiming WAR MT is as viable as PLD ignores the good and incredibly overgeared healers with them. The argument is kind of lost when a healer claims healing a WAR is just fine when they are about 95%+ BIS.

I'm sure my healers were good. But I'm also sure that they told me they prefered me to tank as a WAR because it was better at handling the tank-buster hits and the rest of the time there was no real danger of any tank dieing because auto-attacks were easily healed (turn 1 being the only time they prefered me to play as PLD). Reducing a hit by 2k is only better than healing 3.5-4k afterwards if you get killed by not reducing it.

I remember arguing about this at the time (pre-2.1). It was me and maybe 3-4 other guys who had bothered to get a full set of penta-melded gryphonskin gear as well as Bravura Zenith saying it was fine, and everyone else trying to tell us that WAR sucked and wasnt viable. Turns out everyone who was saying WAR was bad were gearing their WAR like a PLD or playing it as their less-geared alt. They just had the standard Bravura and were gearing for VIT and then wondering why their pathetic little Inner Beasts weren't keeping them alive. Even the devs said that they were doing it wrong.

Turns out that being able to heal yourself for 3.5-4k on a crit is actually pretty good. The rest of the changes in 2.1 were OK, but I really dislike the Inner Beast change.

Oh well, complaints from another time. I'll give the DRK a shot and see which tank I like the feel of more.

[Reynhart]

It will de doable with any combo. Just not in the same way.
Like I said, If the PLD does less damage than the WAR but allows the healers to do more damage because less healing will be necessary, the overall damage of the party will be the same.

So, it's not important if all tanks don't do the same DPS as long as their utility offer something else.

[Sleigh]

To be fair 2.0 WAR wasn't bad in the sense that you wouldn't want to bring one in T5, because it still had Storm's Eye. It was just a terrible main tank.

I would reckon you'd wanna bring a 2.0 WAR to T2 and T5. T1 debatable. T4, that's when double PLD made the most sense to me.