Midgardsormr and the Crystals

[Viridiana]

So, I stumbled across the .txt file for a thread I made a while back, and it got me thinking about the events of 2.5 in a new light.

Let's start with perhaps the most confounding question: Are the Crystals of Light Hydaelyn's blessing?

At first I wasn't sure that they were directly Hydaelyn's blessing. However, our interactions with Midgardsormr made me reconsider that. Specifically, when he seals the Crystals he says that he has stripped us of her blessing, and he rather seems to know what he's talking about. So, I'm willing to take Mid at his word. On the other hand, the next question complicates things somewhat. . .

Next question: Mechanically speaking, how was the blessing stripped from us?

For reasons I'll explain shortly, I think that the Crystals of Light were completely sealed. That is, sealed from Hydaelyn, sealed from us, and sealed even from Mid (though I assume he can undo it if he really needed them). Now, I have reason to believe that certain things associated with the Crystals predate our encountering them. I'll go into those reasons in the next section. If it's true, though, it means that Hydaelyn (presumably) was interacting with them before we found them. I suspect that simply having their presence in the life stream was enough for Hydaelyn to utilize them, and that Mid's sealing them has temporarily removed them from the stream entirely.

Wait, now! What's this about Hydaelyn using the Crystals before we came across them?!

Well, here's the thing. Tupsimati has been hanging in the Waking Sands for five years before the start of the game. During all that time, at no point did any of the Ascians stroll into the base and take it. This is five years in which the Crystals of Light are scattered to the four corners of Eorzea. If there were no seal during those five years, it would mean that Nabriales chose not to seek one of the most potent artifacts we've seen in game during that time. Much more likely, I think, is that there was already a seal present shortly after the Calamity. The problem is, when Mid seals the Crystals, that breaks the seal. That implies that the seal is founded on the Crystals. But the crystals have been scattered for the last five years, during which time it seems logical to conclude there was a seal. Ergo, I think Hydaelyn was using them even when they were scattered in order to power the seal.

Well, how the heck is Hydaelyn supposed to do that?

Here's where it starts getting. . .weird. Initially, I thought that maybe Hydaelyn was able to move aether from the Crystals of Light over vast distances. After all, at the beginning of the story we can only "confirm" that three of the Crystals were unpossessed by Primals. While Ul'dahn players would have seen the Crystal of Water in the desert, for others it was either in La Noscea or the Black Shroud. In fact, for a Gridanian player the closest Crystal known not to be possessed by a Primal is still extremely far from the Waking Sands, to put it mildly. We might assume that the Crystal of Fire had not yet been consumed by Ifrit, but that is still kinda far from the Waking Sands, even if we place it in the mines of Western Thanalan.

But even our most restrictive reading, putting an unconsumed Crystal of Fire within Copperbell Mines, is still a little ways to be moving that much aether. If Hydaelyn is capable of that, then why would she not use the vast, vast quantities of aether within Mor Dhona to replace the seal when deprived of the Crystals of Light? Was the power of just three Crystals of Light, even attenuated by nearly a full continent's distance, still more powerful than all the aether of Mor Dhona? I'll grant it's possible; we still know extremely little about the Crystals, after all. I suspect, though, that it was a different quality of the Crystals that made them valuable in constructing the seal.

When we defeat Primals, their aether returns to the land. Logically, this would include the aether of all the crystals consumed in their summoning. Of note, though, the Crystals of Light do not disperse. I suspect, therefor, that part of what makes the Crystals unique is their stability. Regardless of how much we or Hydaelyn have used them; despite being heaped with other crystals as sacrifice for Primals; even when channeled to shield us from Ultima, the Crystals of Light have shown no signs of ever being truly consumed. This, I think, is what Hydaelyn was counting on when she used them as the basis for the seal.

It also, I think, can potentially address another issue with the seal. Specifically, if the seal is based on the Crystals of Light, and we're traipsing all over the continent with them, how does the seal not fluctuate? The best I can come up with is that the Crystals have a constant presence within the stream. That is, no matter where they're being moved within the physical world, possibly including into Primals, they aren't budging within the flow of aether. It's only when Mid decides to completely seal them from the stream that things break down. Of course, there's still the problem that Tupsimati becomes a moving target for however long it takes to move bases, so maybe I'm over thinking matters. Regardless, though, the seal is fine up until Mid plucks the Crystals from the stream.

New topic: Why are Nabriales and Minfilia the only ones to notice the change?

Minfilia notices by the end of your first conversation that something's changed. Nabriales notices pretty quickly. Furthermore, he puts two and two together and realizes that the seal is also broken. Since a lot of what we know about the Crystals of Light came from the Ascians, I'm not surprised that they know more about the seal than we do. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is the first time that a seal over our headquarters is even mentioned in the game. Of course, I just realized why the other Scions don't realize the blessing has been taken from us. I keep forgetting they don't have the Echo and don't commune with Hydaelyn. Then again, neither do the Ascians. Good thing Nabriales was more interested in glory than in working with the other Ascians. If he had told the others that the seal was broken, Tupsimati would probably have been taken by now.

On a final note of something that occurred to me as I was coming up with this, the end-of-patch teaser quotes keep hinting that a brighter light casts darker shadows, implying that part of why the Ascians keep ramping up their game is because we're becoming more and more powerful. The thing is, Hydaelyn's been weakened since Ultima. If there truly is a light getting brighter, it isn't her. We defeated Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva while she's been recuperating. I think we've become stronger than we realize. Midgardsormr may have broken the seal over Tupsimati, but the first Ascian to try to capitalize on that has died permanently. We can't even be sure the Ascians as a whole have even noticed that he's gone, because as far as we know an Ascian death is unprecedented.

Anyway, at this point the floor is open to hole-poking, so to speak. Let me know if I've overlooked anything or misinterpreted something that should be obvious.

[ClaireAbigail]

Hydaelyn's blessing has been replaced with......Dragon Power!!!! Which is like 1000x better....just kidding :3
Misgardsomr stripping us our blessing is supposed to be a test because Hydaelyn wants misgardsomr to grant us more power. So, he's like lets see what you can do without your blessing! Does that mean that other primals can brand is now? Nope because now basically he's the one watching over us.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ersus_english/ look at that, that might prove interesting for ya because it's gonna make you think that Hydaelyn is working with misgardsomr

[Viridiana]

Snip

I'm aware of all that.

I'm not looking at the why, which I think has been fairly established. I'm more looking at the how of it, and the backstory as to why it has the interaction it does.

[gorezilla1]

Does that mean that other primals can brand is now? Nope because now basically he's the one watching over us.

I don't neccessary believe you're incorrect, but I have to mention that It isn't blessing that prevents us from primal tempering. it's the power of the echo. Granted, the echo is still a blessing but it's different from the blessing that Jormungand stripped from us.

[DoctaruRavenbe]

I don't neccessary believe you're incorrect, but I have to mention that It isn't blessing that prevents us from primal tempering. it's the power of the echo. Granted, the echo is still a blessing but it's different from the blessing that Jormungand stripped from us.

Exactly we as the Warrior of Light received two, TWO blessings for the price of one: The Echo aka no mind whammie, soul/memory gazing, universal translator; and the Blessing of the Light aka Form Blazing sword, crystal mandala/circle, and block out foreign Ascians. Midgardsormr took away our Blessing of Light only. as can be seen in the next cutscenes we can still understand Nabrailes while Moenbryda couldn't. We can handle the primals but we got a dragon on our back checking up on us.

[lololink]

Minfilla is the only one that notices because she is the only one with the echo, all the other characters doesn't have the echo. I think only a few people that remains in the waking sands have the echo ( and maybe hoary boulder and coultenet ? I don't remember if they are just regular adventurers or if they are part of the heirs of the 7th Dawn.)

[Anonymoose]

Does that mean that other primals can brand is now?

No. The Echo (The Power of Transcendence / The Power to Surpass) is what prevents the seat of the soul from being occupied by a primal.

The Blessing of Light is what allows the Champion to manifest and/or draw the Crystals of Light, and those then allow Hydaelyn to channel Her power through Her Champion. They're different things.

Midgardsormr and Lahabrea both comment on this in different ways in different langauges. Lahabrea finds it curious that he's stumbled upon a Warrior of Light, not having seen one for so long, and Midgardsormr thinks it's absolutely ridiculous, insulting even, that Hydaelyn would grant a mortal of the five races The Echo and the Blessing. That's one of the reasons he's so antagonistic and doubtful.

If you're still interested, here's a post I did a bit back detailing the differences between them, including what Midgardsormr's dialogue would look like if you took the parts that were discretely clearest in each language and combined them into one speech (which would be unrealistic, because Midgardsormr is being petty and wouldn't wax poetic for the ant he thinks you are, lol.)

Minfilla is the only one that notices because she is the only one with the echo, all the other characters doesn't have the echo. I think only a few people that remains in the waking sands have the echo ( and maybe hoary boulder and coultenet ? I don't remember if they are just regular adventurers or if they are part of the heirs of the 7th Dawn.)

I don't think Hoary and Coultenet do; they said they joined the Scions based on tales of the Champions heroism and felt like they should be doing more to help the realm. The only NPCs I remember having the Echo beyond Iceheart, Minfilia, and the Champion were the members of the Path of the Twelve that died either in the Calamity or when Livia stormed the Waking Sands. I thought perhaps Damielliot was an undiagnosed Echo user, but he's not around anymore and it didn't quite line up.

[Belhi]

I don't think Hoary and Coultenet do; they said they joined the Scions based on tales of the Champions heroism and felt like they should be doing more to help the realm. The only NPCs I remember having the Echo beyond Iceheart, Minfilia, and the Champion were the members of the Path of the Twelve that died either in the Calamity or when Livia stormed the Waking Sands. I thought perhaps Damielliot was an undiagnosed Echo user, but he's not around anymore and it didn't quite line up.

Technically there was also a Sahagin Elder but I'm not sure he really counts and he died too.

Actually I have a theory that the Ascians all effectively have the echo too. Particularly I think Lahabrea and Elidibus were quite likely former mortals, perhaps even Warriors of Light, who were gifted with the Echo who defected. It would make Elidibus's interest in us make sense. Minfilia and the Champion are potentially two new recruits.

He just mentions he gave it to the Little Solace Sylphs as a sign that hes there for them or something like that, and realizes you did gain their trust and could potentially keep your word

Ironic considering how badly the tempered Sylphs treat the Sylphs of Little Solace.

[DoctaruRavenbe]

Ironic considering how badly the tempered Sylphs treat the Sylphs of Little Solace.

Just cause grandpa gives you a nice gift doesn't mean the other half of the family will treat you like scum

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

The tempered Sylphs always struck me as being merely 'xenophobic'. Literally afraid of other ones. And they want all their brothers and sisters to be these ones because then they'll all be together and safe with Ramuh, their protector. Why wouldn't you want to be one of these ones, there must be something wrong with this one and these ones will correct it!

It comes with Ramuh's somewhat guarded and insular nature. He's not like any of the other primals in that the rest attack you in a furious rage over some perceived slight or because you're getting in their way. Ramuh challenges you to a duel after you have a conversation with him. He's even so kind as to wait for you to go gather up 7 allies and at no point does he make a move to temper any non-Sylph.

I kind of wish we knew more about the original summoning of Ramuh, because it almost seems to me like the Sylphs would have almost had to beg Ramuh to temper them, with the way he acted.

Of course, I could have read everything involving Ramuh incredibly wrong, that's always possible.

To contribute a bit to the original topic: I'm almost certain that the seal was not on the room but the area around Tipsumati. I seem to recall Elidibus showing up in the Solar in the Waking Sands, but I can't recall if they had freshly moved Tipsumati making it possible for him to arrive. It's been a while. If that's the case it's possible the seal existed even before the Calamity or was even created at the moment when it was used to channel the Power of the Twelve during Bahamut's rampage.

It's entirely possible that the Crystals of Light exist because the seal was made, like a physical manifestation of Hydaelyn's Will to protect a tool of the Gods from the hands of Zodiark's minions. Not that Hydaelyn reached out, picked up the crystals and made the seal, but like they were the runoff from it's creation during that moment when Aether in Eorzea was being almost literally thrown across the entire realm.