Quote Originally Posted by pandabearcat View Post
This is pretty much 100% wrong.

It is patently obvious that increasing haste CAN lead to dps loss IF you run out of TP. Obviously if you never run out of TP, then increased haste is a dps increase, but since we're having this conversation, that means you are running out of TP.

In every rotation there are efficient TP spenders (usually: DoTs) and there are inefficient TP spenders. Generally speaking the most efficient TP spenders are on cooldown. Therefore, increasing the amount of attacks per "efficient TP spender CD" will lower your overall efficiency. Are we agreed on that?

Now, lets look at the other facts.

1. TP regen is static. Whether you use invigorate, goad, paeon etc, your TP gain regardless of haste is constant. This is obvious, because nothing reduces those cooldowns.

2. Regardless of how fast you spend your TP, IF you ever spend all of your TP, your "TP used per second" is identical regardless of how fast or when you ran out of TP.

3. Since total TP usage (assuming you run out of TP) is constant once you run out of TP, the constraint on your dps is no longer actions/section aka DPCT but rather DPTP.

4. Since total dps is dependant on DPTP, the higher TP efficiency will win out.

5. Since established before, TP efficiency goes down with haste, haste can definitely result in lower dps.

The painfully obvious solution is to have haste increase resource generation as well, but obviously that would make too much sense, and I'm happy (no I'm not) to see SE hasn't changed anything over the past year and a half since this idea was first proposed.

EDIT: One thing that I did not note, however, is the possibility of getting increased damage out of a cooldown, if you are able to squeeze in 1 more ability during a cooldown's duration. Suffice to say, generally speaking this doesn't happen enough for it to overcome the burden of heavily increased TP spending.
The reason haste can't lead to theoretical dps loss on an optimally played class is that you can simulate not having it by just not pushing your buttons as often.

In practice, while I admit the urge to smashy smash is often hard to supress, a good player will notice they are running low on TP and cut out their least TP efficient attacks (usually one run of the base combo, though for monks it's slowing down their rotation so they don't lose GL stacks). Since every point of TP you don't spend on TP inefficient attacks late in a fight probably corresponds to a point you spent on those same TP inefficient attacks earlier in the fight, it ends up likely being DPS neutral at worst and likely a small DPS gain at best since, as you mentioned, getting more attacks in buff windows is a DPS gain.

Also (and this isn't directed at you Panda), note that while Fey Light is theoretically at worst DPS neutral for TP classes, Fey Glow isn't the same for MP classes, specifically because of BLM. They benefit from burning through resources faster so they can generate more of them. Kinda useless for SMN though.