[Suggestion] Remove Stamina Bar

[Lyndria]

I see a lot of good suggestions, but I feel that some of conversation has gotten slightly off topic.
The scope of this is to examine the benefits/hindrances of the stamina bar.

Auto Attack:
- If auto attack is added it could work fine with or without the stamina bar.
- If auto attack is not added, it could also work fine with or without the stamina bar.

So my concern is that the additional threshold, bottleneck, etc. of the stamina bar in its current form is useless. The desired effects for limiting actions can be achieved using the other limitations already placed in the game.

- We could use longer/shorter animation times to differentiate between abilities like bloodbath and rampart. Or, use the stamina bar for buff actions only. (Featherfoot, Fercocity, Blood Rite, etc.)
- Does my Warmonger really need to take up half my stamina bar or could we just give it a longer animation time? Or could we just limit those types of actions to stamina without spells, WS's, attacks, ect. also taking away from the same bar?

examples:

Casting Sacrifice takes - mp, hp, stamina, casting time, animation time, and also has a cooldown.
Using Seismic Shock takes - mp, tp, stamina, animation time and also has a cooldown.

- in each case there is enough there to limit the actions of the player sufficiently in a variety of ways without using stamina.

[Dreamer]

....remove stamina, add auto-attack, tweak and balance HP/MP/TP useage, remove BR and add Skillchain/magicburst, delete armory system, add some sort of sub-job system..

<-- FFXI is that way. Please go play it. Some of us don't FFXI-2. There is zero reason why the current battle system can't work with some minor tweaks. You don't need to clone another game's battle setup in order to fix it.

I see a lot of good suggestions, but I feel that some of conversation has gotten slightly off topic.
The scope of this is to examine the benefits/hindrances of the stamina bar.

Auto Attack:
- If auto attack is added it could work fine with or without the stamina bar.
- If auto attack is not added, it could also work fine with or without the stamina bar.

So my concern is that the additional threshold, bottleneck, etc. of the stamina bar in its current form is useless. The desired effects for limiting actions can be achieved using the other limitations already placed in the game.

- We could use longer/shorter animation times to differentiate between abilities like bloodbath and rampart. Or, use the stamina bar for buff actions only. (Featherfoot, Fercocity, Blood Rite, etc.)
- Does my Warmonger really need to take up half my stamina bar or could we just give it a longer animation time? Or could we just limit those types of actions to stamina without spells, WS's, attacks, ect. also taking away from the same bar?

examples:

Casting Sacrifice takes - mp, hp, stamina, casting time, animation time, and also has a cooldown.
Using Seismic Shock takes - mp, tp, stamina, animation time and also has a cooldown.

- in each case there is enough there to limit the actions of the player sufficiently in a variety of ways without using stamina.

It boggles my mind that people are so hung up on adding a lazy auto-damage feature to the game that adds nothing tactically in and of itself to the game. It's an outdated feature that needs to go the way of the dodo. People already can't seem to keep themselves from spamming melee attacks; this will only exacerbate that.

I actually prefer the Stamina Bar. It gives the developers an additional balancing tool for future abilities and it gives the game tempo.

I think a queue system would be nice though, especially if you can macro up attack sequences (which would negate the need for Auto-attack)

This has potential to be a much better game than FFXI, rather than a simple clone.

LotRO has some minor queuing in its battle system. It didn't seem terribly effective. Granted, it was only one attack, so additional queuing may fix that. But my gut feeling is that being able to queue a bunch of skills would make it feel like the game is playing itself.

[Lyndria]

@kukurumei

agreed.

[Crowley]

Right now the only queuing that really happens is when you have depleted stamina. You can queue a spell once you are "letting go" of your current cast and slightly queue up the next, or queue the cast-bar portion of a spell during a WS animation.

Currently the "cast interrupt" mechanic is almost impossible to trigger when you truly need it, and most often, triggers when you think a spell is not queued or cast (or lag) and you go to cast the spell again. You wind up, then cancel, then have to recognize this and recast again.... hard to believe that portion is working as intended... something wrong with the Esc key?

Stamina, IMHO, is in place to limit physical dps rate ... so it isn't a spam-fest. Its the 4th limiting factor to disciples of magic though ... and I find it quite cumbersome. Even the idea is .. really. Might be better if that rank one spell at rank 50 didn't take the same amount of stamina ... but honestly I'd like stam completely removed. I cast 2-3 self-buffs and I'm practically tapped out >.> I have to stagger them to allow stam regen in-between, which slows down the pace of combat even more.

[Ayaka]

Agree and signed in!

The Stamina Bar could dissapear, regen faster or reduce the stamina usage of actions...

But i prefer it to simply dissapear

[Rokien]

Sooo pretty much FFXI right? Make casting times higher? What good what that would do? One ability per mob!? That is retarded. If you're having that much trouble with the stamina bar, maybe you shouldn't spam an attack 500times one right after the other.

[Llan]

Auto-attack is a crappy idea. It removes the control one have over his own Enmity generation, also makes the game an idiotic point-and-click-like thing. I rather play something hard then some easy mindless MMORPG like Ragnarok.

Anyway, proceeding with the topic, I believe the Stamina bar is a good idea, it should not be removed but re-built. Indeed, as some of you have mentioned, the Stamina costs for normal attacks are kinda massed up. As Marauders can just spam their attacks in a blinding speed until they run out of stamina, attacking with the attack speed of an Archer or a Pugilist.

I also agree with what someone said about the Weapon Delay. It should be combined with the Stamina. People should have the limitation of the Stamina plus the weapon delay, so they wouldn't be able to spam attacks one after the other so fast that the first attack animation is interrupted by the next attack animation. Which obviously looks glitchy to me. This game was meant, as far as I know, to have a "slow" battle system, so the battle would have to be a lot more tactical then attack/spell/heal spam. Sadly it isn't working, as we can see on Zerg Behest parties and stuff like that. Even so, I think they aren't far from obtaining the main goal for the Battle System.

Regards,
Llan Hana.

[Betelgeuzah]

Unless the current system changes drastically, (which it might) the stamina bar is too much of a hindrance for not enough of a reason.

Limiting Factors

- Each move in the game currently requires the use of a resource:

HP, MP, and TP.

- In addition to these resources we have extra limiters on skills and abilities:

cooldown times, casting times, and animation times.

Not the basic attacks.

They can keep the stamina for the use of basic attacks.

[Reika]

There are still a lot of people with the silly idea that ALL aspects of FFXI should have carried over to FFXIV.

I believe the stamina bar and stamina usage should stay, for all combat-related actions. The stamina system is not bad IMO. I like it. It increases game play tactics by preventing eternal action spamming. Removing it would just enable ultimate easy-mode play.