Thread: Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

Originally Posted by Sushikins

You're viewing it too generalized. We're protecting Eorzea, yes they're all doing their jobs, but they're also trying to harm the people we're trying to protect. Beastmen? With a few exceptions they kill people on sight, even if it is to defend their land

The did not used to. In fact even in the MSQ Scions will often refer to the fact that it wasnt the beastmen that attacked first.

Primals temper people and turn them into mindless slaves, and even when not, their very existence puts Eorzea in danger, so even when they're not evil or against us we have to put them down.

In the same breath that you call the Garleans oppressors, seriously?
Because this is exactly the Garlean way of thinking.
You are aware that Hydaelyn also qualifies as a primal right? Yeah, the WoL (your character) is serving one. Do you know why the WoL is immune to tempering?
''You already serve another god'' taking from the games dialogue.

Originally Posted by Sushikins

The turncoat soldiers may be no better, but unlike the above examples, to the people we're protecting they're protecting Eorzea as well, not threatening their lives.

As I explained they are not the same, they are worse.

Originally Posted by Sushikins

As of now people have heard that you were apparently behind an attempt on the Sultana's life, which isn't a whole lot to go on to turn against you.

You presume a lot that isnt stated in the game. Even the Sultanasworn dont seem to know Nanamo died. In fact, noone actually does at the point that its relevant.
The WoL could have fought back and captured/killed the people that saw Nanamo dead. Which was only a syndicate member, some brass blades, and the lady in waiting. With the WoL's influence it would have been easy to convince others that they killed Nanamo.
In fact, the only thing they even had when you were inside of that room was their word against the WoL's. And the WoL's word carries far more weight.

Originally Posted by Sushikins

But if they came out and proved that you also killed many soldiers during your escape, soldiers simply trying to protect the Sultana and the City, soldiers who may have families, then suddenly you're not looking anywhere near as good.

Dont make them into good guys now. These are guys that willingly betrayed the saviors of the realm. There is not a single none corrupt Crystal Brave that would fight the WoL.


Just trying to protect people? Have you already forgotten the Crystal Braves that got brutally murdered to silence them?
I have no absolutely no idea where you get the ''good people trying to do their job'' from. The game and dialogue itself make explicit mention of Seizing power via Corrupt Brass Blades and Corrupt Crystal Braves.

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Except, we don't even know what would happen if you decide to murder the guards that came to apprehend you. Resisting would be an admittance of guilt. Murdering would just reinforce that guilt and make you suspicious as hell. Remember also that only the WoL and only one other member of the Crystal Braves were privy to the information about the corrupt Crystal Braves. Not even Alphinaud knew about it at the time. Any innocent Crystal Braves would just act on orders given that you turned traitor from their perspective.

We know what would have happened: you wouldn't have been captured like a scrub. I see several people trying to argue this point, but did you miss how they're trying to frame you? The Syndicate has a lot of sway and they're clearly not above planting evidence and lying so you're "guilty" whether you resist arrest or not. Since you're guilty anyway you may as well evade arrest until you can clear your name. Also, considering the length of time the entire coupe had been planned and the way it even played out, it heavily implies that all of the Blades and Braves present were on the take anyway so it's unlikely you'd be cutting down someone innocently doing their job.

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

We know what would have happened: you wouldn't have been captured like a scrub. I see several people trying to argue this point, but did you miss how they're trying to frame you? The Syndicate has a lot of sway and they're clearly not above planting evidence and lying so you're "guilty" whether you resist arrest or not. Since you're guilty anyway you may as well evade arrest until you can clear your name. Also, considering the length of time the entire coupe had been planned and the way it even played out, it heavily implies that all of the Blades and Braves present were on the take anyway so it's unlikely you'd be cutting down someone innocently doing their job.

The Warrior of Light is overly naive and trust almost everyone who says "I sware, dude, I'm your friend!". Even if Teledji is known to be a bad character, only seeking profit and power for himself, he's still one of the most powerful leader of Ul'dah.
With his great sense of justice, there is no way the Warrior of Light would have attacked Teledji or his guards without any kind of evidence beside "he's not a nice lalafell".

Our character is more often that not completly clueless. It's not a sign of stupidity, but more something amongst the lines of him/her not being able to fully understand what all of these bad behavior works, because s/he's pure of heart.

It's not the first time that we, as the viewer, are able to understand a situation to the point of calling it obvious. But from the point of view of the Warrior of Light, when Teledji came to arrest us, s/he may have absolutly no idea what was going on, and blindly followed the guards to be put under arrest. Even if he's not up to good, Teledji still represent the authority of Ul'dah. Standing against him means standing against Ul'dah altogether.
Besides, the Warrior of Light is good, lawful, fair and loyal. Attacking the leader of a city-state, even for his/her own safety, is very unlikely to ever happen. There is absolutly zero hint of selfishness within the Warrior of Light. Blasting and punching through a bunch of guards just to save his/her own ass is absolutly not something that seems natural for the Warrior of Light.

It's like most people here don't realize how clueless the Warrior of Light is regarding all that stuff, and assume that he's as farseeing as the player.
Yes, as the player, with the amount of knowledge we had (including everything the Warrior of Light didn't know), resisting might have been a better choice... but the Warrior of Light is not the player.

Something obvious for us isn't the same for the Warrior of Light, and some people here fail very hard to understand that.

Originally Posted by Wobi

Um...that is exactly what I was trying to get across. Fighting would have given them just the ammo they needed to discredit me, also as a member of the Immortal Flames and proud member of the city of Uldah I didn't want to fight soldiers that didn't know better.

They're actively trying to frame you so it doesn't matter whether you fight back or not. And due to the nature of their plan it's highly unlikely any innocent soldiers are even present.

Originally Posted by Fyce

The Warrior of Light is overly naive and trust almost everyone who says "I sware, dude, I'm your friend!". Even if Teledji is known to be a bad character, only seeking profit and power for himself, he's still one of the most powerful leader of Ul'dah.
With his great sense of justice, there is no way the Warrior of Light would have attacked Teledji or his guards without any kind of evidence beside "he's not a nice lalafell".

Our character is more often that not completly clueless. It's not a sign of stupidity, but more something amongst the lines of him/her not being able to fully understand what all of these bad behavior works, because s/he's pure of heart.

And thus we come around full circle to part of why this thread was made in the first place. The WoL isn't privy to all of the information the player is, but given what they do know they still have zero reason to ever trust Teledji. Yes the WoL is naive to a fault, but even then we've been shown to be able to tell when something stinks when given sufficient reason for doubt. If the WoL doesn't think they have sufficient reason for distrusting the Syndicate they've been trying really hard to ignore the elephant in the room. It's actually so naive that it's out of character for them to be cooperative.

Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

I think the main issue is that, over the course of the story, we learn that the WoL isn't exactly us, but another character whose appearance/class we can alter while their personality is seperate from us. The problem being...we're not playing a very interesting character.

It is also a change in storytelling to the various points in the story where the player can choose their character's response to people addressing them. Even if the overall outcome remains the same; a situation in which a lot of us would take differently is either skipped or glossed over with another's responses.