Thread: Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

I would have liked it if the cut-scenes portrayed our character defending ourselves verbally, like when we were accused on the spot in the Sultana's chambers or while tied up. Move their mouths implying they are saying hey, I was framed, this was a complete set up... And then have one of the Scions respond in kind, saying like, I don't believe the WoL had done any of this. He/She's is clearly being falsely accused.

The only ones that actually said something related to being framed/defend WoL's innocence was Y'Shtola and Raubhan, where Y'Shtola pointed out the convenience of the poison bottle placement and Raubhan never doubting the WoL. The other's only pointed out the obvious which was even more infuriating to watch, along with the argument being so one-sided. Instead the WoL just sat there and took all the false accusations, never once tried to imply they would verbally defend themselves, like any righteous person would.

Originally Posted by Tayolynn

Instead the WoL just sat there and took all the false accusations, never once tried to imply they would verbally defend themselves, like any righteous person would.

We didn't need to, not a single person in that room believed Teleji's accusations. The random people in the back were cowering because he marched into the Chamber of Rule with a fully armed group and initiated a coup d'etat after he committed regicide, and all but admitted to it. I think in the 2.55 line, my only time that I have been disappointed with the passiveness of the WoL was when the 3 leaders hid behind their issues to avoid sending soldier to Ishgard. It made me realize Gaius was right, the people of Eorzea lack strong leadership.

It perplexes me to see people using the "We did nothing to prove our innocence" line of thought. We did nothing to achieve exactly zero, in fact I'd argue we achieved negative of zero. We're not innocent by any means, because according to the current storyline: We are fugitives and wanted criminals on the run for participating in the plot to assassinate the Sultana.

So let me get this straight, we did nothing and:

• All our closest comrades (Scions) are dead (killed in the most laughable fashion).
• We allowed the Braves and Blades to secure vital areas in Eorzea.
• Our home in the Rising Stones is overtaken by traitors, and we now work from some dude's wine cellar.
• We went from Hero to Queen-killing criminal, after suffering the humiliation of watching our friends die.

When you realize that the Syndicate can control all the mass media anyway, doing nothing was the absolute worst thing we could have done.

Originally Posted by Darkshaunz

It perplexes me to see people using the "We did nothing to prove our innocence" line of thought. We did nothing to achieve exactly zero, in fact I'd argue we achieved negative of zero. We're not innocent by any means, because according to the current storyline: We are fugitives and wanted criminals on the run for participating in the plot to assassinate the Sultana.

So let me get this straight, we did nothing and:

• All our closest comrades (Scions) are dead (killed in the most laughable fashion).
• We allowed the Braves and Blades to secure vital areas in Eorzea.
• Our home in the Rising Stones is overtaken by traitors, and we now work from some dude's wine cellar.
• We went from Hero to Queen-killing criminal, after suffering the humiliation of watching our friends die.

When you realize that the Syndicate can control all the mass media anyway, doing nothing was the absolute worst thing we could have done.

It's intentionally left as a cliff hanger as to whether the Scions are dead. Most definitely, that would fit in with the comments about how the 3.0 storyline will have a new cast of characters, but that doesn't mean they're dead. Furthermore, the Braves and the Scions have only secured Ul'dah and its surrounding regions. The other 2 city states are still safe and Mor Dhona is anyone's guess. I think it's safe to say that if members of the Adventurer's Guild saw either organization harassing us, they'd intervene. The Syndicate's grip on Ul'dah is not as solid as you may think. Members of it did incite rebellion and were accused of attempting to secure the location of the Omega Weapon, but given they have to keep the Sultana's death under wraps and they will not arrest us in the open for fear of a rebellion speaks to how tenuous their grasp on the city-state really is.

Originally Posted by Tayolynn

I would have liked it if the cut-scenes portrayed our character defending ourselves verbally, like when we were accused on the spot in the Sultana's chambers or while tied up. Move their mouths implying they are saying hey, I was framed, this was a complete set up... And then have one of the Scions respond in kind, saying like, I don't believe the WoL had done any of this. He/She's is clearly being falsely accused.

Alternatively, include instanced fights within cutscenes (naturally impossible to win). After doing X amount of effort into the fight, more adds appear and then eventually fade away into a cutscene. Like that one fight leading to the level 20 fight against Ifrit. You're winning and then suddenly, more appear and you're overwhelmed and then put to Sleep by their THM.

Originally Posted by Aeyis

Yes. That difference is that Beastmen typically fight to defend their own lands, Garleans are simply people with a different point of view on things. Primals are those that answered a desperate call for help (someone would define that an aspect of a hero).

These are different from the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves. Because the others really just fight to defend their way of living, yet we kill them all mercilessly and think nothing of it.

But when we are to kill Corrupt Brass Blades and corrupt Crystal Braves (for all purposes criminals without remorse), it suddenly puts a bad light on us?
In case you havent noticed, all of them are not doing their job.

You have peculiar values.

So... If we translate the situation to our-world terms... We have a soldier. A war hero. Who's killed multiple enemy combatants (imperial soldiers, bandits, beastmen, etc; humanoid/sentient targets), who happens to enjoy hunting as a pasttime (animals, beasts, dragons etc; non-humanoid/sentient targets). Say he comes back, and during some welcome-home party gets accused of murder (with somewhat flimsy, yet present 'proof' of your supposed guilt). I think that in this situation, most people would agree that shooting the most likely corrupt or at least non-questioning police officers who attempt to arrest you would not be the smartest thing to do, even if you had a suspicion the judge/jury might easily be bought to get a conviction against you. Biding your time until their guard was down and then escaping in order to find proof of your innocence, however?

Yeah, I think the general populace would view the killing of a few Ul'dahn soldiers as a far worse thing than killing hundreds, even thousands, of dangerous enemies and animals. Because that's what beastment and imperial soldiers are to most of the people. Even if the brass blades in question were corrupt, there'd still be that niggling voice going 'but what if they weren't?' in the back of the citizens' heads.
It's not really a question of 'would your character be capable of killing them' or 'would your character see it as worse or equal to killing all those others' or even 'would you as a player see it as worse than killing all those others'. It's 'would Ul'dah's citizens see it as a worse crime'.

True, escaping also provides the accusers with some fuel. "Why would they have escaped if they weren't guilty?"
Also true, a lot of said brass blades and crystal braves were killed during the escape, albeit not by you. I still think there'd be a distinction, because those happened out of sight, with only soldiers present. But escaping from the sultana's chambers by either killing only the soldiers and leaving the two civilians as witnesses or killing the civilians as well.... In the first case, you have two civilians who can attest to "s/he killed them in cold blood, s/he did! right before my very eyes! D: I near fainted from shock! the horror!" -- which makes it a lot more real to the person listening to it. In the second case, you add the whole 'killing of innocents' to the list of crimes. Even if those two civilians were far from innocent, to most people civilians are supposed to not run the risk of being killed, whereas soldiers 'willingly' face that risk every day.

And I just realized that I'm rambling XD So I'll stop here.

Originally Posted by Noxifer

And I just realized that I'm rambling XD So I'll stop here.

Rambling is not a bad thing.
However I disagree with your arguments. These are the monetarists and corrupt blades we are talking about. The common people of Ul'dah loves neither.
On top of that, you would do it to avenge their beloved ruler.

If anything they would idolize the WoL even more after that.


Comparing scenarios in games with real life rarely works. That's because in real life we have this mess of complex rules and regulations and social interaction limiting our actions by a great deal.