Thread: Revelations from Patch 2.55 [SPOILERS]

When you start rambling again about this "we can't defeat an army" and so on, you are discussing with yourself, because none of those, who don't like the plot holes in the last part of the story want to defeat or even fight an army.

There are only a few possibilities:
1. You don't even read the posts you are answering to.
2. You read them, but ignore their content.
3. You read them, understand them, but you can't argue the mentioned points, so you keep talking about those which are none.

Just some of the vital points you and others keep ignoring (and these are just points you don't have to guess, you can see this inside the cutscenes):

A) Ysh deflects a powerful attack which one-hits all the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves inside the room, and not for herself alone, but for the whole group and without any weapon in her hand. So the point of "we are powerless without a weapon" is gone, even if people demand, that it was taken. (and that this would be forced, too, because many characters would for sure not do that in such a situation and just say: sorry, not now and today, I keep my weapon, if you don't like that, then we meet another day. I just got some of my friends killed and some strange things happening around here, I have to be careful)

B) Beside those one-hit victims there are no further Brass Blades or Crystal Braves even close to the banquet. It takes around 5 minutes at least, until a few more are coming up the stairs. So to say that we have to fight an army for saving (or trying to save) Raubahn is also gone. There was only Ilberd left and with Raubahn fighting Ilberd, there wouldn't be a big chance for Lolo to escape - but well.

C) Ignoring A and B, again: No army is waiting outside. Just running would have been enough to escape. Those few guys able to follow us only reach us because of all the chat breaks. So the Scions actually die for nothing.

D) The thing with the guilt:
D1) First thing: fleeing always makes you look guilty.
D2) "We" DO fight and kill a lot of people, so the point of "We can't harm anyone anyone, because we would look guilty" is also gone. We are part of the group of Scions. And the Scions are killing guards. Even the guards slaughtered by Ilberd will be blamed on us.

And so on.

Actually, for Lolo, since at least a good part of the astonishing big Crystal Brace mercenary army was under his control, it would have made a lot more sense, if he had used this to let Ilberd kill the Sultana, the Crystal Braves storm in and then yell, that this is a planed coup of Alphinaud and the Scions, trying to take over Uldah. Ilberd could be the hero, suddenly fighting against the Braves and the Scions, while the Crystal Braves - mercenaries from outside, so easily to blame - and their leaders (= Alphinaud and kind of the Scions and the WoL) are the baddies and Lolo could play the strong guy who averted an attack on Uldah.

To let the Brass Blades just fight side by side the the Crystal Braves is very strange. It raises questions, why there are so many of them in Uldah and together with other questions, like Sultansworn gone, flames gone, all points toward Lolo, what he for sure would normally not like. Because he too can be assassinated and other things and the more reasons he gives to more and more people, the harder his life and reign gets (all speculations aside, that he may work for someone else and so on). He's still not in the position to simply create a police state and rule with oppression.

Ad hominem attacks aside...

Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

A) Ysh deflects a powerful attack which one-hits all the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves inside the room, and not for herself alone, but for the whole group and without any weapon in her hand. So the point of "we are powerless without a weapon" is gone, even if people demand, that it was taken. (and that this would be forced, too, because many characters would for sure not do that in such a situation and just say: sorry, not now and today, I keep my weapon, if you don't like that, then we meet another day. I just got some of my friends killed and some strange things happening around here, I have to be careful)

Y'shtola using a rudimentary shielding spell without a drawn weapon does not mean we are not powerless without our weapons; I never said we were, but the reality is that fighting unarmed against a large force of armed enemies is nigh-impossible. She was also using magic, and particularly powerful or skilled magi are known for being able to use spells without a channeling device (weapon) in fantasy settings. (If you aren't suggesting we fight back or resist arrest, why do you continue to bring this up?)

As a side note, everyone but you still had their weapons; therefore Y'shtola being able to use a spell without her weapon drawn is reasonable.

In regards to why you're forced to leave your weapon at the door, there isn't enough time to develop a branching story path that lets you choose not to and from the PC's perspective they weren't expecting trouble. (I've explained this about three times now.)

B) Beside those one-hit victims there are no further Brass Blades or Crystal Braves even close to the banquet. It takes around 5 minutes at least, until a few more are coming up the stairs. So to say that we have to fight an army for saving (or trying to save) Raubahn is also gone. There was only Ilberd left and with Raubahn fighting Ilberd, there wouldn't be a big chance for Lolo to escape - but well.

The amount of time between your escape your from the dining hall and when enemy reinforcements showed up around the royal promenade is indeterminate, but likely 1-2 minutes tops.

Thancred specifically notes the city's been placed under tight guard, so another escape route is unlikely if not impossible.

Thancred also tells Yda that "unless [she] intends on pummeling them all," there's no point in trying to fight back. The enemy forces are much larger than what we see.

While the Scions had their weapons and could have helped Raubahn fight Ilberd, we didn't, and as I've iterated before (and Thancred himself is backing me up on this one) the city was under tight guard, so it wouldn't have been long before more Blades and Braves were swarming us.

Lolorito makes his escape after Ilberd tanks Raubahn's first swing and gets pushed back.

C) Ignoring A and B, again: No army is waiting outside. Just running would have been enough to escape. Those few guys able to follow us only reach us because of all the chat breaks. So the Scions actually die for nothing.

See: The amount of time that passes between your escape from the dining hall and the arrival of the enemy reinforcements is indeterminate, but for the story's sake likely 1-2 minutes tops. That would have been plenty of time to escape but as Thancred notes there's guards everywhere, so any obvious route of escape was likely cut off, and the characters likely needed a moment or two to pull their wits together.

As an aside, I highly doubt any of the Scions are dead. Captured, maybe, but not dead.

D) The thing with the guilt:
D1) First thing: fleeing always makes you look guilty.
D2) "We" DO fight and kill a lot of people, so the point of "We can't harm anyone anyone, because we would look guilty" is also gone. We are part of the group of Scions. And the Scions are killing guards. Even the guards slaughtered by Ilberd will be blamed on us.

1) While fleeing might make us look guilty, in the face of the state corruption and framing there is no way not fleeing would help us.
2) There is no indication that anyone, excepting Nanamo and Teledji, was outright killed during "The Parting Glass." Like as not they were simply knocked out, and knowing the Scions that's probably the case.

Actually, for Lolo, since at least a good part of the astonishing big Crystal Brace mercenary army was under his control, it would have made a lot more sense, if he had used this to let Ilberd kill the Sultana, the Crystal Braves storm in and then yell, that this is a planed coup of Alphinaud and the Scions, trying to take over Uldah. Ilberd could be the hero, suddenly fighting against the Braves and the Scions, while the Crystal Braves - mercenaries from outside, so easily to blame - and their leaders (= Alphinaud and kind of the Scions and the WoL) are the baddies and Lolo could play the strong guy who averted an attack on Uldah.

Except Lolorito isn't trying to become a national hero, and he needs popular opinion to be supporting the Crystal Braves if he's going to be openly working with them in Mor Dhona to excavate Omega. It's very possible he didn't even want to have to step into the forefront at all, and only intended to keep using Teledji as a puppet from the shadows.

EDIT: Stating the Scions and Crystal Braves are staging a coup to gain control of Ul'dah is just as ridiculous as Teledji accusing them of enlisting Ishgard for aid in that very same plot (if not moreso).

It's similarly pointless to alienate a large group of mercenaries you've been paying, especially when you need their organization's support to control the territory you're interested in.

To let the Brass Blades just fight side by side the the Crystal Braves is very strange. It raises questions, why there are so many of them in Uldah and together with other questions, like Sultansworn gone, flames gone, all points toward Lolo, what he for sure would normally not like. Because he too can be assassinated and other things and the more reasons he gives to more and more people, the harder his life and reign gets (all speculations aside, that he may work for someone else and so on). He's still not in the position to simply create a police state and rule with oppression.

The Brass Blades and Crystal Braves fighting alongside each other would not be strange in the face of a large crisis (like regicide); they're both peacekeeping organizations on paper.

Neither the Sultansworn nor the Immortal Flames have been disbanded (yet). The Flames were mobilized to assist in the defense of the Steps of Faith; the Sultansworn are a much smaller organization, a number of whom are being paid off by the Monetarists. Like as not Lolorito won't disband either because he wants to keep up appearances or because he can pay off enough of them to keep the organization under his control.

While Lolorito doesn't have the power to create a police state yet, I have no doubt that's the direction he's going. It's either that or unfettered corruption and lawlessness, which does not help him in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Cilia

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Well, all your points are just your personal opinion. That's fine, keep it. I stay with that what the game is actually showing and telling us.

Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

Rock bottom? It could have been much worse.
We could end up in the prison with our level reset to 1, or got caught with certain heretic leader while trying to cross the border into Ishgard...

If Square wants to kill their game, sure.

It's one thing when you don't give players choices. That's acceptable, because it would mean (a lot) extra work. I don't know how many would accept, when they not only got no choices, but their characters getting raped like that and just by cutscenes they can only look at. Main problem of the main story for many players I talk with is anyway, that the main action you got is teleporting and walking. There are fights and there is danger, but still most of the time you are only spectator. This one bigger battle in North Thanalan was nice for example. You really could do something. The end of the beast tribe series in comparison. Sure, those beastman rangers was a nice idea, but really: you kill some trash mobs and that's it? Was a "bit" anticlimatic.

It would have been also very nice, if we would have had real gameplay to get out of Uldah. I mean, it was the great finale in a GAME and all we can do is sit there and watch how stupid our PC behaves, walking from one (obvious) trap into another.

Gameplay: Escape Uldah.
You can fight - and they will blame all the dead on you.
Or you can sneak out - and they will still blame all the dead on you. Because they are ******.

Plan of the Scions could have been to split up, so the followers are forced to split up, too. They could have even used most of the same cutscenes, those just would have made more sense. It's not an exactly bad plan, if you want to avoid fighting and sneak out of a city, to split up.

And why not able to help Raubahn? Give it some push back magic. Throw them/us out of the room and let the door be sealed afterwards. If we want to help or not, we just can't and have to flee, for now. Again, almost same cutscenes, same story.

Originally Posted by Aryalandi

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The ending may not please everyone. I like it, others like it, some people don't.. that is the way most things are, square came up with their ending and regardless of if people like it or not that is how it will remain, i don't want to be "that person" but if the ending has so shaken the faith of people that hate it there is the door, or you can just wait and see how the story progresses from this point. Personally i will be waiting for the story to take us back to deal with the issues with the blades and crystal braves, and the syndicate, and whoever is behind everything~ as a dark knight auri, because the lore behind the job will make it the most fitting thing to do.

Does not work that way. As said, I took what we SAW and KNEW because of cutscenes and so on.

To say, that we are helpless or weak without a weapon alone is pure assumption.

You know what your (and I don't mean you alone) problem is? That you can't handle even a breeze of critic at something you personally want to be perfect with all might. If you and the others could handle this, it would be easy for you to say, that the critic IS a valid point, BUT you still like it the way it is. This would be no problem at all for me, if you would still love the story. But as long as you are crying havoc over clearly valid points, you won't get a "You are right!" from me. Not if you don't bring up also valid counterarguments and not just mere assumption, which do not make much sense.

As long as you behave like that, trying to sell your assumptions as clear facts, which they are not, there is no reason for me to take those "answers" serious.

I write her, because I hope, that it may give Square some nice ideas for the future. I don't know why you and the others write, maybe just to prevent this. God forbid, that we may get a story at the end, where we can make decisions or something evil like that.

@ "Here is the door"
Oh, please. You know what kind of people bring up something like that?