[dev1072]Gear-based systems are bad

[MeowyWowie]

I guess I would agree with you to an extent, Lienn. But look at the bright side.

Currently, 99% of the gear in FFXIV is ridiculously easy to obtain, and the few pieces that take a little extra work are only marginally better, if that. I don't see this trend changing much, as Yoshi P said something along the lines of crafted gear being more or less on par with rare/ex gear.

A very bad example of how to handle gear stats and such is RIFT's tiered system. From what I understand, (I had a few RL friends who played, but did not play myself) You needed a full set of tier one gear to even hope to survive a tier 2 dungeon, which then you needed a full set from there to attempt the T3 raids and so on. Just be glad this is not the case in FFXIV. (I may be wrong, I have no interest in RIFT whatsoever and this is just word of mouth from my friends that played.)

[Kraggy]

A very bad example of how to handle gear stats and such is RIFT's tiered system. From what I understand, (I had a few RL friends who played, but did not play myself) You needed a full set of tier one gear to even hope to survive a tier 2 dungeon

They're idiots, you can enter T2 perfectly viably with crafted gear and never having run a single T1. T3 can be done in T1, though some T2 is obviously useful.

I've done T2 as a noob 50 on one class, and while I haven't done T3 non-T2 decked-out guildies certainly have.

[MeowyWowie]

They're idiots, you can enter T2 perfectly viably with crafted gear and never having run a single T1. T3 can be done in T1, though some T2 is obviously useful.

I've done T2 as a noob 50 on one class, and while I haven't done T3 non-T2 decked-out guildies certainly have.

You're missing the point.. Each tier of gear shows a significant improvement over the previous tier, while player skill takes a back seat.

What about PvP? When they were still playing, someone in full T1 vs someone in full T6 will get 2-shoted without ever having a chance of winning. Gear was (and still is?) king in RIFT, period.

[Yeldir]

I still play Rift. The gear system, PvE wise, is actually quite good. You can pull a full set of tier 2 out of your butt in about two weeks with no guild involvement simply by mashing the dungeon finder button; and bam, you're ready to raid. It doesn't get nasty hard until Hammerknell (Tier 4 raid), but they've got it horrendously overtuned - even the elitists can't clear it right now.

I doubt my guild (and by natural extension, myself) will play it much longer, though. We joined for the a PVP system that is falling apart due to neglect.

But back to the original topic of discussion - pretty soon here we're going to all have complete access to every class and spec with no restrictions. Without tiers of gear, or at least a variety of gear types and qualities available to max level characters, what's going to distinguish one character from the next?

[Winterclaw]

Here's the thing, I think that skill playing the game should be the most important thing. That means having the right bar for the job (and different goals needing different bars) and knowing how and when to use it. I don't want the endgame to become grinding for better gear so we can more easily grind for better gear.

I also remember reading about FF11 where the named items from the previous game took a year or some crazy number to get to the point where it was usable. Something like that isn't what I'd call good game design.

When the forums first started, I asked the devs to look at modern games like EVE (and its new incursions), Rift, and GW2 and offer real dynamic content. Something like that were you aren't raiding the same dungeons, you aren't always facing the same foes, and you can't always use the same tactics would be better... and in a game like that, I think that gear should intentionally be lessen in impact so players are forced to get better.

[syntaxlies]

I don't want FF14 to become a raid centric game or one of the other MMOs where having the right gear is all that matters. Gear should be important IMO, but not more important than either attributes or your skill bar.

as long as i can still use my attribute conversion traits then i wont mind. i think the benefits towards gear is referring to the materia mainly. do you choose to add +10 int or +10 vit. your still tweaking your stats, but doing it through your gear.

[Zeref]

I think this is blowing this specific statement out of proportion, even now on XIV, and in every game ever, the endgame centers around gear, when you can't level any more, it's the gear that pushes you past that stat cap, what they're saying isn't so much a change in the system as it is a general explaination of every game ever, the higher your level, the more the gear matters, doesn't matter if we're talking about FFXIV and gear, WoW and purples (or whatever the hell color they use for endgame gear) be it Need for speed and tier 4 mods, or Armored Core and Extensions, gear will alaways mean a world of difference after you hit the wall, this is not going to change no matter how much you protest it because this is the way it has always been.

[Kiote]

Unfortunately, Having potency based primarily of skills would require a system that implies effort in gaining skills. This particular game and most other MMOs require you merely to level up to get new skills. If you had to complete various tasks to earn new abilities after reaching a given level it would be more feasible but would require far to much of an overhaul to be implemented any time soon.

[Lienn]

Unfortunately, Having potency based primarily of skills would require a system that implies effort in gaining skills. This particular game and most other MMOs require you merely to level up to get new skills. If you had to complete various tasks to earn new abilities after reaching a given level it would be more feasible but would require far to much of an overhaul to be implemented any time soon.

When we told about skill it was meant "playing skill"...not game actions or skill points ^^:

[Rumpelstiltzkin]

Have you guys played AoC? At least in the early days, when I played, equipment mattered very little and man was it boring. Skill should always be the most important, but equipment should always matter as well imo, especially at endgame. I don't like the idea of busting my butt off for that great looking piece of gear that does next to nothing for my performance, be it healing/dd or something else.