The Garlean "threat", turning back the clock, sharing 1.0's story

[Hiruke]

(Possible spoilers for folks who didn't play 1.0 and/or haven't progressed far enough in, say, Coil, to know what happened in 1.0? Also perhaps if you haven't progressed through 2.0's main scenario. I try to avoid saying too much that's actually specific/detailed, though.)

I'd like to preface by saying that I thought the story and world of 1.0 did a very good job of presenting the Garleans as a real threat. The story started off pretty slow, but once it got to running into the legati and such, it picked up a lot. Throughout the course of 1.0's story, Dalamud kept getting closer, and Garleans swept across the land (their airhips flying overhead and raiding parties coming through by land). The style of the game was also different back then, with overworld monsters being actually challenging, so doing things like farming in a Castrum was legitimately difficult, adding more weight to the threat that the Garleans posed. You constantly had to enter dangerous areas and complete various missions to strike out against the Garleans. More than that, this was stretched out over a long period of time, finally culminating in an epic fight with the White Raven.

It's a little disappointing that 2.0 does little to honor that feeling with regard to the Garleans. It feels more like the Grand Companies were just waiting for you to return to kind of rush in there and mop up the mess. You fight all of the legati/tribuni in story dungeons/trials, with no hard modes even available. You clean up the entire Garlean threat right in the base version of 2.0. This doesn't really make the Garleans seem particularly scary. The primals seem to loom much larger than the Garleans, despite the fact that the Garleans control 2/3 of the world, and have already made big moves toward crushing Eorzea as well.

Obviously the focus is on other things at the moment, but it seems clear that eventually we will have to turn our eyes to Garlemald. When the Garleans become the primary antagonists again (like they were in 1.0, not the side threat they've become in 2.0), would it be possible to weave in the history of 1.0 into the stories? Talk about what happened then, perhaps even flashback to it for key moments using the echo? I don't feel like anyone who didn't play 1.0 is really given a chance to appreciate them as real enemies. I mean, they built Castrums all over the land. They by rights must be formidable if they were able to build bases right before the eyes of every Grand Company.

Speaking of which, it would have been nice if we could have had:

- A flashback fight recreating the original fight against the White Raven. This could be via the Wandering Minstrel, ala Ultima HM.
- Ultima Weapon EX. This is such a great fight (and song!). Would have been great to get an EX of it. Perhaps we'll see this with Omega?
- An EX fight with the Black Wolf and the tribuni. Simply too good not to do. Seriously.

Speaking of which, it would be nice if we could get HM/EX modes of more story fights, such as against certain Ascian(s). Some of these fights are very interesting, but you never go back to them because they are only needed for story progress.

It might be interesting if there was ever a "go back to the past" scenario like there was in FFXI, since there actually is, well, a past that we know about already (though it would be interesting to expand on this as well, and visit scenes like the initial Garlean invasion of Mor Dhona and Ala Mhigo), but mostly I just regret that the story of 1.0 is mostly unexplored (and that those CSes weren't kept for later viewing in the transition to 2.0, for obvious technical/resource/time issues).

Long story short, it would be nice if the Garlean threat was played up more, if the 1.0 story was played up more, and we got more difficult versions of good story fights. Also, and perhaps I should have led with this:

Why do Garleans in-game not use gunblades and/or Magitek mounts!?

It's odd watching the closing trailer of 1.0 and seeing the Garleans clearly using gunblades (after all, gunblades, magitek, etc. are the signature weapons they leveraged to conquer most of the world), and they pretty much don't use them at all in-game. When we start to encroach on the Garlean Empire, will we see this change? Will tougher, better equipped Garleans appear as regular enemies? And use Magitek Armor as support in battle?

[VargasVermillion]

They use the magitek mounts quite a lot, we haven't seen any gunblades on lower ranking infantry though, not in 1.0 or 2.0. The lack of magitek mounts in 1.0 in regards to lore could just be explained as a fairly recent invention or at least something they didn't use much until big battlefield scenarios. My explanation on the lack of gunblades may be due to how garleans try to keep military secrets and gunblades could reversed engineered easier than magitek machines since eorzea does have guns.

My guess is infantry only use them on battlefields or special circumstances, in the 'escape from castrum centri' quest we almost get gunned down by some centurions using gunblades so they aren't completely missing. Perhaps later on they'll add gunblade soldiers with their own movesets to watch out for. atm they likely don't have battle animations for gunblades yet. (also cid wields a custom gunblade for the few times he's a guest npc in battle.)

[Hiruke]

They use the magitek mounts quite a lot, we haven't seen any gunblades on lower ranking infantry though, not in 1.0 or 2.0.

I think I probably felt the way I did about magitek mounts because I haven't been in the MSQ dungeons in a long time. I can only think of a couple FATEs that use magitek mounts, but I only do FATEs slightly more often than doing MSQ dungeons. To be more specific, I find their lack of appearances around the overworld Castrums to be kind of odd.

During 1.0 Garleans were invading Eorzea in earnest and Gaius and co. had relatively full support of the empire.....up until the 7th legion was decimated.

Fast forward to 2.0 the 14th division didnt really have full (or any support) of the empire and had to rely on the bases they secured prior and was waiting for the right time to strike.

Well, the Garleans have built many more Castrums since the Calamity than were in Eorzea prior to the Calamity. They had Ultima Weapon, and more high ranking officers in the area than ever before. The Grand Companies certainly considered the Garleans a real threat, and were considering surrender in one point of the 2.0 storyline. From a story perspective, the Garleans were certainly intended to be menacing. I just don't think it paid off from the perspective of the player (in this case, myself).

Based on this description of the Golden Magitek mount:
"It only took a few heated skirmishes with the allied city-states for Garlemald to realize that the magicks wielded by the realm's mages were too much for even the thickest of magitek armor plating. Alloyed gilding has since been discovered to dampen the effects of elemental charges ...." --- means that magitek mount (while formidable) wasn't enough to fight off eorzean magic. That the golden alloy was eventually developed (you see some deep inside the magitek research facility).

That is kind of interesting. Though I'm not sure I'd want to see a swarm of gold magitek mounts on the field. It does tie in nicely with the ending cutscene of 1.0, where the hero BLM annihilates a magitek with a spell, but somehow I doubt when we visit other areas that we will find that their spellcasters are crazy weak or anything, which will make this bit of lore seem a little awkward.

We are the Warrior of Light, a primal slayer. We are the biggest gun our side has.

We were in 1.0 as well. The bigger point I'm making is that, at least in my opinion, the story of the Garlean threat was too rushed to make a lasting impact, and it feels more like they wanted to skip through it to move on to something else, making the Garleans seem less threatening than they really should be.

I'm with you on being disappointed in the Garlean "threat." But really that's to be expected, SE wanted to hurry up and rush to the true enemy of the Ascians.

Basically this. I would have preferred the Garlean threat was stretched out a little more, rather than wrapping it up right from the get. I think both storylines could have been developed together, rather than letting go of the Garleans to shove the Ascians in your face.

I wouldn't rule them out just yet as a threat. Remember that Garlemald backed-off after that Calamity to consolidate resources, rebuild their losses, recover from the internal strife and rift within, and deal with an aging emperor. With a new power on the throne and their forces joined once again by a common goal and leader, I have a feeling we will start seeing a resurgence during 3.0 leading to a Garlean-themed 4.0.

Exploring the northeast (the last unexplored section of Eorzea after the 3.0 areas come out) and pushing toward the Garlean Empire is so logical of a next step that I feel it's way more likely that 4.0 will take us somewhere else entirely, and that we won't come back to this properly until 5.0 or 6.0. Also, I have no doubt that the Garleans will be portrayed as a more legitimate threat in the future. I just hope there is some homage paid to the 1.0 storyline and the rest of the past, to show that the Garleans always have been a major threat. From a player perspective, they have been a little too much like pushovers and quickly forgotten in the rush to move on to other things.

I ... don't actually know how to preface this post, so I'm just going to say it: I think people expected too much from Gaius van Baelsar.

His glory days of conquest and would-be usurper slaying were fifteen years behind him the first time we met him. The Agrius was lost, he had no plan, and he'd been holed up as Viceroy of Ala Mhigo ever since the primals showed up. Then along comes Nael van Darnus, sweeping up the Emperor's favor and getting him relegated to a supporting role - a lapdog for a moon-dropping madman - and he has to resort to betraying the chain of command to set things right. And what did it get him? Back to where he was before, but having been part of another failed campaign, and at the weakest he's ever been, the Emperor starts dying on him. In his utter defeat and desperation to rise again, he was perfect prey for the manipulative Lahabrea, ended up sacrificing everything he had left for another shot at victory in Eorzea, and he blew it.

He was a fantastic character with an insanely badass history; he was basically Judge Vader. Was. He was softened up long before we got to him, and he did his job as a starter antagonist admirably before he (presumably) exploded. If we never hear from him again, he didn't let me down, personally. And if we do, he'll have nowhere to go but up, which should be satisfying to everyone, lol.

This is an excellent perspective, and I don't disagree. I don't really have a problem with how the scenario played out so much as that everything is wrapped up so early in the player's career that it's not really memorable. I'd be surprised if anyone who didn't play 1.0 thought much of the Garleans at all.

I'll be flabbergasted if Ultima Ex doesn't come out during the life span of 3.0, once the new primals have had their time in the sunlight.

I'm pretty sure at least one promotional video for the game showed Lahabrea riding around on Ultima Weapon, and this was quite a bit after the HM fight came out. Yet... nothing. I think it's more likely we'll get an Omega fight than an Ultima EX.

The question becomes 'Why?' Most of the HM/EXs have a story to them (Though the primal ones are pretty weak). How do you make these fights available without overplaying the minstrel? What gear would they drop, and where would that gear fall in with progression? Would we prefer they work on the Ascian fights (Which I didn't find interesting at all) above primals and the inevitable dragon trials?

The minstrel really only does Ultima and Savage Coil for now. I'm personally not too concerned with whether or not the minstrel is overplayed. The question of drops is a valid concern, though ultimately not mine. I'm honestly more interested in what might be fun to play as opposed to the story or loot (though obviously I have some attachment to those things as well). The first Ascian fight was a throwaway, but I felt the second one was interesting, and wouldn't mind it being expanded upon.

Much like FF11, I do expect them to do some time travel hijinks (And really, they already have), but it really doesn't make too much sense to go back now, especially when we're only removed from the original game by two 'episodes' (Reborn and soon to be Heavensward). This is something I would appreciate and expect somewhere around 4.0 or 5.0.

I agree that going back too soon would be ridiculous.

Magitek armor is all over the place. As for gunblades, I believe the fan theory that makes the most sense to me is that we're essentially fighting against the conquered armies of the Garlean Empire, not the Empire proper, and the Garleans simply didn't bother to train or outfit this troops with new weapons, instead allowing them to use what they were already comfortable with and was cheaper.

Considering that Garlemald is a small nation, and rapidly expanded in the past half century, it's safe to say that the majority of their forces would fall under this category, and yet one might imagine that they leveraged gunblades and magitek mounts in their conquests throughout the world, equipping non-native Garleans with these weapons, since in the end it's magitek that gave them the edge to become an empire to begin with. I think it's more a case of not wanting to expend resources on gunblade weapons, animations, movesets, for what is presently a minor antagonist and we'll see some really fierce Garlean forces once Garlemald is more of the focus of the story. We've seen gunblades in cutscenes, it's just awkward that that's the extent of it so far, though it makes sense from a technical standpoint.

People probably didn't notice it, but the Garlean's weren't salvaging anything from the Agrius, they had constructed a fully fledged research station inside there, the XIVth Leigon are upto something, and no one has noticed because everyone is paying attention to the Dragons. Not to mention the Garleans are our reason for going to Ishgard, with them threatening to resume the invasion, in much greater numbers than ever before, Eorzea is finally trying to get Ishgard back on side.

We may have raided the tiny castrum's, but we've never set foot in the gigantic Castrum Oriens, Marinum or the mystery Coerthas one.

I've definitely been interested to see what they do with Keeper of the Lake (Hard) when it comes out, as well as the unexplored Castrums. I'm also really interested to see if we ever make it south of the lake to see what's going on where Castrum Novum used to be.

[myahele]

During 1.0 Garleans were invading Eorzea in earnest and Gaius and co. had relatively full support of the empire.....up until the 7th legion was decimated.

Fast forward to 2.0 the 14th division didnt really have full (or any support) of the empire and had to rely on the bases they secured prior and was waiting for the right time to strike.

Based on this description of the Golden Magitek mount:
"It only took a few heated skirmishes with the allied city-states for Garlemald to realize that the magicks wielded by the realm's mages were too much for even the thickest of magitek armor plating. Alloyed gilding has since been discovered to dampen the effects of elemental charges ...." --- means that magitek mount (while formidable) wasn't enough to fight off eorzean magic. That the golden alloy was eventually developed (you see some deep inside the magitek research facility).

But yes, it is surprising that they have those collosi in their bases, yet no magitek armors in game.

[Belhi]

I can simply be resources. We have only been dealing with one Legion far from the heart of Garlean strength comprised mostly of leves from conquered territories. The reason most Garlemald troops don't use gun blades is probably that most of them aren't actually Garlean and likely haven't had training in their use.

Also, if we are just looking at the Main Scenario, the Garlean's were pretty damn threatening. They had a weapon that totally owned every primal we had struggled to take down like they were nothing. They almost wiped out our order. They had the military power to threaten the Grand Alliance and this was just one legion without full backing from the rest of the empire. Also remember that our characters are exceptional individuals. If we take down Garlean's with some ease it doesn't mean our allies find it as easy. We are the Warrior of Light, a primal slayer. We are the biggest gun our side has.

[Dererk]

A flash back fight of Riven Road yes please could use the wandering minstral for this.

Also maybe a survival like duty for the big battle as meteor was falling like you'd have to survive mob after mob after mob in a big field then Bahumat bursts out of Dalamud and we'd go in to a count down of dodging debris as well as killing what ever mob comes at us.

[Dererk]

As 1.0 was just starting to wrap up they finally set up a base after many failed attempts to get a foot hold so Magtech armor wasn't there in 1.0 cause of this.

Also during 1.0 you mainly dealt with the VII legion that was lead by the White Raven and they were mostly made up of post concurred Al Mahigo youths who wer indoctrinated in the legion by a system of brain washing that involved having them kill people who were close to them I think it showed in the anniversary after meteor story's that one of the White wolves wer one of the people in it.

Also we failed to stop meteor the VII legion saw The White Raven as some one who has surpased death and well this made them more crazy.

[lololink]

A flash back fight of Riven Road yes please could use the wandering minstral for this.

Also maybe a survival like duty for the big battle as meteor was falling like you'd have to survive mob after mob after mob in a big field then Bahumat bursts out of Dalamud and we'd go in to a count down of dodging debris as well as killing what ever mob comes at us.

Well spoiler SCoB :

That's basically T9...

[Dererk]

Well spoiler SCoB :

That's basically T9...

I'm talking about the real Riven road......with the stairs.

[NoloeTazier]

I'm with you on being disappointed in the Garlean "threat." But really that's to be expected, SE wanted to hurry up and rush to the true enemy of the Ascians. This required some sacrifices, one being taking the Pitbull of Gaius van Baelsar and making him a lowly Chiuahaha. Sure he had Ultima Weapon but that's it, he took a back seat to the Ascians. It's a big saddening that 2.0 players didn't get to experience an epic enemy like van Darnus i.e. Gaius being of the same awesome level, heck Gaius took on the Archons in a great CS. Hopefully the new Garlean Emperor will bring back some of that feeling going forward.