Thread: The Garlean "threat", turning back the clock, sharing 1.0's story

People probably didn't notice it, but the Garlean's weren't salvaging anything from the Agrius, they had constructed a fully fledged research station inside there, the XIVth Leigon are upto something, and no one has noticed because everyone is paying attention to the Dragons. Not to mention the Garleans are our reason for going to Ishgard, with them threatening to resume the invasion, in much greater numbers than ever before, Eorzea is finally trying to get Ishgard back on side.

We may have raided the tiny castrum's, but we've never set foot in the gigantic Castrum Oriens, Marinum or the mystery Coerthas one.

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

They use the magitek mounts quite a lot, we haven't seen any gunblades on lower ranking infantry though, not in 1.0 or 2.0.

I think I probably felt the way I did about magitek mounts because I haven't been in the MSQ dungeons in a long time. I can only think of a couple FATEs that use magitek mounts, but I only do FATEs slightly more often than doing MSQ dungeons. To be more specific, I find their lack of appearances around the overworld Castrums to be kind of odd.

Originally Posted by myahele

During 1.0 Garleans were invading Eorzea in earnest and Gaius and co. had relatively full support of the empire.....up until the 7th legion was decimated.

Fast forward to 2.0 the 14th division didnt really have full (or any support) of the empire and had to rely on the bases they secured prior and was waiting for the right time to strike.

Well, the Garleans have built many more Castrums since the Calamity than were in Eorzea prior to the Calamity. They had Ultima Weapon, and more high ranking officers in the area than ever before. The Grand Companies certainly considered the Garleans a real threat, and were considering surrender in one point of the 2.0 storyline. From a story perspective, the Garleans were certainly intended to be menacing. I just don't think it paid off from the perspective of the player (in this case, myself).

Originally Posted by myahele

Based on this description of the Golden Magitek mount:
"It only took a few heated skirmishes with the allied city-states for Garlemald to realize that the magicks wielded by the realm's mages were too much for even the thickest of magitek armor plating. Alloyed gilding has since been discovered to dampen the effects of elemental charges ...." --- means that magitek mount (while formidable) wasn't enough to fight off eorzean magic. That the golden alloy was eventually developed (you see some deep inside the magitek research facility).

That is kind of interesting. Though I'm not sure I'd want to see a swarm of gold magitek mounts on the field. It does tie in nicely with the ending cutscene of 1.0, where the hero BLM annihilates a magitek with a spell, but somehow I doubt when we visit other areas that we will find that their spellcasters are crazy weak or anything, which will make this bit of lore seem a little awkward.

Originally Posted by Belhi

We are the Warrior of Light, a primal slayer. We are the biggest gun our side has.

We were in 1.0 as well. The bigger point I'm making is that, at least in my opinion, the story of the Garlean threat was too rushed to make a lasting impact, and it feels more like they wanted to skip through it to move on to something else, making the Garleans seem less threatening than they really should be.

Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

I'm with you on being disappointed in the Garlean "threat." But really that's to be expected, SE wanted to hurry up and rush to the true enemy of the Ascians.

Basically this. I would have preferred the Garlean threat was stretched out a little more, rather than wrapping it up right from the get. I think both storylines could have been developed together, rather than letting go of the Garleans to shove the Ascians in your face.

Originally Posted by Velox

I wouldn't rule them out just yet as a threat. Remember that Garlemald backed-off after that Calamity to consolidate resources, rebuild their losses, recover from the internal strife and rift within, and deal with an aging emperor. With a new power on the throne and their forces joined once again by a common goal and leader, I have a feeling we will start seeing a resurgence during 3.0 leading to a Garlean-themed 4.0.

Exploring the northeast (the last unexplored section of Eorzea after the 3.0 areas come out) and pushing toward the Garlean Empire is so logical of a next step that I feel it's way more likely that 4.0 will take us somewhere else entirely, and that we won't come back to this properly until 5.0 or 6.0. Also, I have no doubt that the Garleans will be portrayed as a more legitimate threat in the future. I just hope there is some homage paid to the 1.0 storyline and the rest of the past, to show that the Garleans always have been a major threat. From a player perspective, they have been a little too much like pushovers and quickly forgotten in the rush to move on to other things.

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I ... don't actually know how to preface this post, so I'm just going to say it: I think people expected too much from Gaius van Baelsar.

His glory days of conquest and would-be usurper slaying were fifteen years behind him the first time we met him. The Agrius was lost, he had no plan, and he'd been holed up as Viceroy of Ala Mhigo ever since the primals showed up. Then along comes Nael van Darnus, sweeping up the Emperor's favor and getting him relegated to a supporting role - a lapdog for a moon-dropping madman - and he has to resort to betraying the chain of command to set things right. And what did it get him? Back to where he was before, but having been part of another failed campaign, and at the weakest he's ever been, the Emperor starts dying on him. In his utter defeat and desperation to rise again, he was perfect prey for the manipulative Lahabrea, ended up sacrificing everything he had left for another shot at victory in Eorzea, and he blew it.

He was a fantastic character with an insanely badass history; he was basically Judge Vader. Was. He was softened up long before we got to him, and he did his job as a starter antagonist admirably before he (presumably) exploded. If we never hear from him again, he didn't let me down, personally. And if we do, he'll have nowhere to go but up, which should be satisfying to everyone, lol.

This is an excellent perspective, and I don't disagree. I don't really have a problem with how the scenario played out so much as that everything is wrapped up so early in the player's career that it's not really memorable. I'd be surprised if anyone who didn't play 1.0 thought much of the Garleans at all.

Originally Posted by Bombast

I'll be flabbergasted if Ultima Ex doesn't come out during the life span of 3.0, once the new primals have had their time in the sunlight.

I'm pretty sure at least one promotional video for the game showed Lahabrea riding around on Ultima Weapon, and this was quite a bit after the HM fight came out. Yet... nothing. I think it's more likely we'll get an Omega fight than an Ultima EX.

Originally Posted by Bombast

The question becomes 'Why?' Most of the HM/EXs have a story to them (Though the primal ones are pretty weak). How do you make these fights available without overplaying the minstrel? What gear would they drop, and where would that gear fall in with progression? Would we prefer they work on the Ascian fights (Which I didn't find interesting at all) above primals and the inevitable dragon trials?

The minstrel really only does Ultima and Savage Coil for now. I'm personally not too concerned with whether or not the minstrel is overplayed. The question of drops is a valid concern, though ultimately not mine. I'm honestly more interested in what might be fun to play as opposed to the story or loot (though obviously I have some attachment to those things as well). The first Ascian fight was a throwaway, but I felt the second one was interesting, and wouldn't mind it being expanded upon.

Originally Posted by Bombast

Much like FF11, I do expect them to do some time travel hijinks (And really, they already have), but it really doesn't make too much sense to go back now, especially when we're only removed from the original game by two 'episodes' (Reborn and soon to be Heavensward). This is something I would appreciate and expect somewhere around 4.0 or 5.0.

I agree that going back too soon would be ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Bombast

Magitek armor is all over the place. As for gunblades, I believe the fan theory that makes the most sense to me is that we're essentially fighting against the conquered armies of the Garlean Empire, not the Empire proper, and the Garleans simply didn't bother to train or outfit this troops with new weapons, instead allowing them to use what they were already comfortable with and was cheaper.

Considering that Garlemald is a small nation, and rapidly expanded in the past half century, it's safe to say that the majority of their forces would fall under this category, and yet one might imagine that they leveraged gunblades and magitek mounts in their conquests throughout the world, equipping non-native Garleans with these weapons, since in the end it's magitek that gave them the edge to become an empire to begin with. I think it's more a case of not wanting to expend resources on gunblade weapons, animations, movesets, for what is presently a minor antagonist and we'll see some really fierce Garlean forces once Garlemald is more of the focus of the story. We've seen gunblades in cutscenes, it's just awkward that that's the extent of it so far, though it makes sense from a technical standpoint.

Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

People probably didn't notice it, but the Garlean's weren't salvaging anything from the Agrius, they had constructed a fully fledged research station inside there, the XIVth Leigon are upto something, and no one has noticed because everyone is paying attention to the Dragons. Not to mention the Garleans are our reason for going to Ishgard, with them threatening to resume the invasion, in much greater numbers than ever before, Eorzea is finally trying to get Ishgard back on side.

We may have raided the tiny castrum's, but we've never set foot in the gigantic Castrum Oriens, Marinum or the mystery Coerthas one.

I've definitely been interested to see what they do with Keeper of the Lake (Hard) when it comes out, as well as the unexplored Castrums. I'm also really interested to see if we ever make it south of the lake to see what's going on where Castrum Novum used to be.

Originally Posted by Bombast

Magitek armor is all over the place.

EDIT: I'd also like to say I really like Gaius, and thought he was a perfect villain. He's not supposed to be the ultimate bad ass, or a cackling loon intent on Godhood, or the perfect invader. He's a man with a differing opinion then Eorzea and the Scions, who's willing to pick up the sword to get things done. And while you're obviously not supposed to agree with him, you are supposed to be considering what he does and what he says. That's undermined considerably when you crank his threat level up to 11.

I expect that we will see a lot more Magitek Armor around, although not as actual lore-relevant content. (They're adding 'that theme' for the Magitek Mounts next patch.)

I also like Gaius; if you played the Beast Tribe quests, you'll find that the Brotherhood of Ash, the 'good' Amal'jaa, have a very similar strength-based philosophy as Gaius does. The difference is that they are portrayed rather sympathetically, compared to Gaius, who is almost always seen in conquest mode. Gaius is a man who essentially raised Cid, that a man like him who could raise a child to be as open-minded as Cid speaks volumes to Gaius's inner workings. Additionally, the fact that Gaius also raised Rhitahtyn, a non-Garlean former mercenary, to a rank that few pure-blood Garleans could aspire to, is another indicator of complexity beyond what we have seen of him in-game.

Originally Posted by lololink

Well spoiler SCoB :

That's basically T9...

I'm talking about the real Riven road......with the stairs.

Yeah, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. 1.0, the final boss of it is one of the Legatus of the Garlean Empire. He almost destroyed Eorzea by dropping Dalamud, and it was pretty much sheer luck that kept things from going badly. 2.0, the final boss is, yet again, just one of the Legatus of the Garlean Empire. Despite being trapped on Eorzea, with no support, Gaius manages to get a weapon that, again, could have ended any threat that Eorzea held. Yes, he was being used by Lahabrea, but Gaius was still the real focal point of ARR.

We've gotten through two Legions of the Garlean Empire. There are twelve left. Each time we've only dealt with one legion at a time pretty much. And every victory against them has pretty much been a fluke. Midgardsormr breaking the seal, surviving the release of Dalamud, Hydaelyn's support? The things that kept the Empire at bay are pretty much one-time things. And they're recovering and preparing for a renewed assault.

Don't get me wrong, the Ascians are the main threat. But the Empire is not a minor little thing that's been written off. I don't think they could get more focus without becoming the main villains of the game.

The gunblade theory on not giving them to untrained soldiers makes sense except for the fact that none of the centurions use them either (except for one cutscene). The in game enemies don't have them simply because they recycled them from 1.0 and they didn't have gunblades because they just didn't have animations or enemies with gunblade mechanics.

You could make up your own lore about it but mine is that they only use them for battlefield scenarios (which we haven't witnessed them do in game) since they wouldn't want to risk enemies getting their hands on them from small squads.