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  1. #501
    Player
    Riepah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,324
    Character
    Riepah Redeemer
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Chitara View Post
    It is definitely getting out of hand when you see this same group of blatantly obvious bots logging in and out every minute or so for hours. on hand. Check the button below for picture of my account. It is as annoying as it ever was.. and getting worse day by day.
    They aren't logging in and out, they're entering duty, farming something. Possibly entering a dungeon, teleporting to treasure chests containing gil or sellable items. They may also actually finish duties by teleporting in the air over a boss and hitting it while the boss cannot retaliate, I've seen bots doing that in a vid someone posted.
    (1)

  2. #502
    Player
    TinyMonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    299
    Character
    Soushie Monster
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    I'm getting really tired of RMTs. I can't even talk to my friends anymore because we are all in busy mode. Though now we even have shouts! A dev should really come talk about this. It's getting way out of hand!
    (0)

  3. #503
    Player
    tocsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    589
    Character
    Tocsin Wolndara
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerowaffle View Post
    What? This is not a matter of "playing the game my way", it is cheating. All players are expected to advance through the game, gil buyers are getting more gil through a third-party that SE bans for. Leveling bot are advancing their character using a third-party program that SE bans you for. If this were a single-player game, whether or not someone cheats wouldn't matter, they are only competing against themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riepah View Post
    Is this supposed to be a joke? Botting is cheating no matter how you look at it, and knowing that has nothing whatsoever to do with elitism. It is against the rules, and when people cheat in games, it's rather normal for many who play the game the way it's intended to take offense at it.
    Glad that finally got a reaction. This thread was starting to go stagnant, and I was trying to stir the pot a bit to keep this on the front page a little more often. I had a feeling bringing out the word "elitist" would grab a reaction

    However, Considering I keep my tells turned off, and often forget that the system even exists, spamming doesn't bother me much. and, other than being the blessed people undercutting on the shard market and keeping my profits alive, I don't even ever see an RMT bot.

    Consider this. SE releases an anti-cheat program and eliminates all bots. Most endgame non-botting gatherers (read 80% of gatherers) would need shards to be priced at least at 400 gil or better per shard, to make them more profitable than mining or harvesting any other item. now, look at a lvl 19 iron hoplon (shield). in order to craft that you need a total of 9 shards. that means, that at minimum cost assuming you gathered all mats except shards, this item would already have a minimum value of 3600 gil. adding the cost of materials, and you have an even 4000 gil. Tell me if any lvl 19 new player, without RMT or veteran help, has earned 4000 gil themselves to spend on a single shield. These numbers do nothing but rise as levels go higher.

    Like it or not, RMT is the only thing keeping crafting alive in this game.
    (0)
    Last edited by tocsin; 04-20-2015 at 10:19 AM.

  4. #504
    Player
    Orspeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    156
    Character
    Orspeth Bleakwood
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 54
    Quote Originally Posted by tocsin View Post
    Glad that finally got a reaction. This thread was starting to go stagnant, and I was trying to stir the pot a bit to keep this on the front page a little more often. I had a feeling bringing out the word "elitist" would grab a reaction<snip>

    Like it or not, RMT is the only thing keeping crafting alive in this game.
    I don't care what it does to prices. Ban the cheaters and botters - they are nothing but filth and scum. Give me a fair and honest market or give me none at all.
    (2)
    Last edited by Orspeth; 04-20-2015 at 10:42 AM.

  5. #505
    Player
    tocsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    589
    Character
    Tocsin Wolndara
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Orspeth View Post
    I don't care what it does to prices. Ban the cheaters and botters - they are nothing but filth and scum. Give me a fair and honest market or give me none at all.
    Quite agreed. I'm just saying, that unless SE changes the entire crafting system to not use shards, "Honest market or none at all" would quickly go to "Not at all", rather than "honest", mainly because the crafting system as currently composed is, honestly, broken.
    (0)

  6. #506
    Player
    Crescent_Dusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    328
    Character
    Crescent Dusk
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    I just resubbed from a break on 2.1, and I don't think I've ever been spammed so much with gold seller paragraphs in any MMO, and I have decades of MMO play among different MMO's. It's just constantly adding people to Blacklist, I think I blacklisted 15 people today, that's just dumb.
    (0)

  7. #507
    Player
    Kuwaitum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Ivory Spirit
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by tocsin View Post
    Most endgame non-botting gatherers (read 80% of gatherers) would need shards to be priced at least at 400 gil or better per shard, to make them more profitable than mining or harvesting any other item. (.......) Like it or not, RMT is the only thing keeping crafting alive in this game.
    IMO, the market will suffer but eventually will reach equilibrium point, as for the pricing it is mainly controlled by the demand and supply. For me as a crafter and gatherer I put a value of time for me to gather, personally I don’t gather any mats if their enlisted MB price is less than 300 gil/per piece.

    If I had more time to play my least list price would have been lower, its gil generation per hour of play.

    Now speak of BOTs/RMTs & Players using Gathering bot programs. Their time value is Zero. Every mat and every shard gathered consumed 0 of their time. So they are gaining gil from nothing, like selling air.

    RMTs keep the game alive, TRUE, but RMTs are not free gil-shard trading company. They are cycling out gil-shards in-game to extract real money. So for them to continue the gil-shard trade for the mentioned crafting issue, real money MUST be used.. thus promoting buying Gil for real Money. (Bizarre).

    On Server:Faerie, latest average price for shards is 67-74 gil. As mentioned above BOTs consume 0 real person’s time so you are profiting regardless of what price you are selling. In September-December 2013, shard prices on Faerie were 4-17 gil per shard. Why did the prices went x5 time more?! Other than RMTs already control the MB. After all you need more gil to buy 10K shards for 70gil that when it was 7gil. Any normal gatherer cannot supply what a non-real-person x100 can gather, so there is no way honest gatherers can crush, in addition doubtfully gatherers also want to maximise profit.. so its less likely to crush them by lowering their price, even so their stock will be sold and RMT's will be top list again.

    Again, tell me why someone would buy 10K shards again? Oh, to level up ASAP? This game is designed to last for years.. you’ll have time to level up. As for your humble example of the shield which needs 9 shards.. 9 shards need 30 seconds to gather at a stonethrow distance of any state city gate.
    Many new players go solo now, knowing that he/she can go unpunished, buys gil to get whatever he/she needs off MB. When prices hop high, he/she will try to blend into a group “FC” so he can get some discount or help.. promoting the FC involvement which what this game is about multi-player.

    If a system in game is broken, I read MB is broken, Crafting is broken, Gathering is retarded. Any case it was.. if we want to fix it, we fix it in the right way.. We should not fix something by corrupting another.
    (1)
    Last edited by Kuwaitum; 04-20-2015 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #508
    Player
    Zabuza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    724
    Character
    Zefis Shadowsea
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk View Post
    I just resubbed from a break on 2.1, and I don't think I've ever been spammed so much with gold seller paragraphs in any MMO, and I have decades of MMO play among different MMO's. It's just constantly adding people to Blacklist, I think I blacklisted 15 people today, that's just dumb.
    Once your blacklist reaches 200 you'll find it's too much effort to remove people from blist to add new ones. A separate /tell tab or /busy status is the solution nowadays. In other words, crippling one's social connections to maintain one's enjoyment of a social game.
    (0)

  9. #509
    Player
    tocsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    589
    Character
    Tocsin Wolndara
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwaitum View Post
    IMO, the market will suffer but eventually will reach equilibrium point, as for the pricing it is mainly controlled by the demand and supply. For me as a crafter and gatherer I put a value of time for me to gather, personally I don’t gather any mats if their enlisted MB price is less than 300 gil/per piece..
    Same here, I wont even put something up on the marketboard for under 500 gil apiece. not worth my sell slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwaitum View Post
    Now speak of BOTs/RMTs & Players using Gathering bot programs. Their time value is Zero. Every mat and every shard gathered consumed 0 of their time. So they are gaining gil from nothing, like selling air..
    Actually, Bots and Player bot programs don't exactly have a time value of zero. Even with the best teleporting bots, there still is a limited amount of shards that a bot can gather in an hour. doing a small google search (and not even clicking the links), most gathering bots can only gather a maximum of 600-700 items per hour. that's 16,800 max per day of paid subscription. its a lot larger amount than any normal player has, but its a far cry from zero time value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwaitum View Post
    Again, tell me why someone would buy 10K shards again? Oh, to level up ASAP? This game is designed to last for years.. you’ll have time to level up. As for your humble example of the shield which needs 9 shards.. 9 shards need 30 seconds to gather at a stonethrow distance of any state city gate.
    9 shards, yes, those can be gathered at a city gate. now, consider this. When I am crafting materials to create mastercraft desynth tools, I use 21 shards per synth. and it takes 52 seconds to run the in-game macro to synth them. so, allowing 8 seconds to finish synth, repress the synth button, and resynth it, that's 21 shards per minute. and I do this for 3-4 hours at a time. for a single session, I might use 5-6 thousand shards. For my normal gathering speed of ~300 per hour, that's 18-20 hours of gathering. I simply don't have time to spend 18 hours gathering shards on top of 4 hours of crafting, in order to make an honest 500knet profit.
    (0)

  10. #510
    Player
    nuyu11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    735
    Character
    Kokotsu Kotsu
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 70
    Yup demand and supply rules.
    There will be a supply for Gil when there is a player who demand for easiest way to gain Gil.
    (0)

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