Formal Letter to SE about RMT situation.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

You know, people keep saying SE is in cahoots with gil sellers and RMT so that the company can profit off of them, but if that is the case, then why doesn't Square just sell gil directly outright? Why go through all the secrecy and backdoor deals?

[Magusrex]

You know, people keep saying SE is in cahoots with gil sellers and RMT so that the company can profit off of them, but if that is the case, then why doesn't Square just sell gil directly outright? Why go through all the secrecy and backdoor deals?

No one is saying they are in "coohootz" I think they are banning them and they are buying new games therefore generating revenue from buying the new games and more subscription revenue. The more subscribers and sales the better they look. We can complain all we want but unless we quit and impact the revenue we can forget any kind of meaningful response from SE. More subscribers and more sales makes SE look better. It's sad they value that more than they value our satisfaction.

[MageBlack]

No one is saying they are in "coohootz" I think they are banning them and they are buying new games therefore generating revenue from buying the new games and more subscription revenue. The more subscribers and sales the better they look. We can complain all we want but unless we quit and impact the revenue we can forget any kind of meaningful response from SE. More subscribers and more sales makes SE look better. It's sad they value that more than they value our satisfaction.

Sorry if I sound daft, but isnt what you just said the very definition of cahoots?

ca·hoots
kəˈho͞ots/
nouninformal
plural noun: cahoots

colluding or conspiring together secretly.
"the area is dominated by guerrillas in cahoots with drug traffickers"
synonyms: in league, colluding, in collusion, conspiring, collaborating, hand in glove, in bed
"it turned out that the commissioner was in cahoots with at least two of the managers"

[Magusrex]

Sorry if I sound daft, but isnt what you just said the very definition of cahoots?

ca·hoots
kəˈho͞ots/
nouninformal
plural noun: cahoots

colluding or conspiring together secretly.
"the area is dominated by guerrillas in cahoots with drug traffickers"
synonyms: in league, colluding, in collusion, conspiring, collaborating, hand in glove, in bed
"it turned out that the commissioner was in cahoots with at least two of the managers"

No, they are not conspiring together secretly...They are profiting from their inaction. There is a profound difference.

[Zabuza]

First off, I want to make sure you are clear that I am also not a fan of RMT, I do think more needs to be done and I too think the issue is worse (on some servers) than other games. I just don't think berating SE over it and leveling such harsh criticism does anything to help the situation.

Anyway, what i meant by taking the fight to RMT is doing a DDOS attack on their websites, spam them with emails, do unto them as they do unto games. Report the websites, or something actually proactive against them. What we can actually do, I dont exactly know but I see no one attack the RMT's or even consider it. Look at that thread that appeared today about "How should i deal with this kind of friend" where he talkes about a friend of his that buys gil. This is part of the problem. This person needs to be named, shamed, and banned. The RMT and the Buyers are the problem, if there wasnt a market for it, they wouldnt be here.

As for the right click report function, it was actually addressed at one point. they were worried if they implemented that and the right click block that people might accidentally use this. That was before the right click block was implemented so now that they have it, I too think adding the report to that mini menu would be a good idea. Something mentioned a long time ago. I know a lot of these "simple" fixes people casually throw out there sound easy to implement and an easy solution but we don't know their server structure, their coding, what other countermeasures they have in place, how the fix might inadvertently cause problems, etc.

Also, just like others have said, most of the fixes will fall under the "fixing the symptom but not the cause" Rather than more band aids on the RTM scaring, I would like to see more permanent solutions to stop them, I'm sure SE feels the same way. Even banning an account is just a band aid solution, its nothing for them to scam another account, hack someones account, just go and buy another copy, etc. SE puts up an IP blocker, they use VPN. SE blocks them from spamming chat, they make 6 new characters and cycle through them to spam. This is the biggest reason I think SE isnt going to tell us what they are doing, why would they tell us on a public forum how they plan to stop RMT? That's like the US government announcing on Public TV their secret plans to invade ISIS.

I think my problem is I have more empathy for the people at SE than i do for the rudeness I see in some posts here about this. I'm not a programmer, I'm not a tech expert, and I'm not a PR whiz but I do not envy the job SE has in trying to combat it.

I find it incredibly insulting and condescending when people say things like "SE is lazy". Really? They took a failed game, rebuilt it into something that is now gaining traction. All while still upgrading and supporting the current failure they knew they would be scrapping when they were done. They did it through the Tsunami and earthquake and nuclear disaster that wreaked havoc on Japan. They put up with barrage after barrage of players giving them grief. And they did it all in about 2 years time. Not sure what the average time a company has to produce a AAA MMO before release but I think its more than 2 years and did it with a skeleton crew (i think under 20 employees actively working on the game)

"SE is just profiting from the RMT/in bed with the/benefit from the numbers they provide" Somehow I don't think SE is altogether enjoying the RMT screwing with their balanced economy, Pissing off legit players, creating tons of more work for them to play damage control between players and media, More working trying to ban accounts, research accounts to make sure they are legit RMT, find out if it is a stolen account and try to recover it for the player, and then get constantly badmouthed for it.

Sorry for the rant, I could go on ad-nauseum but I'm sure i'm just wasting my time and breath as well as the time of people reading/skimming over this. People arent in this thread to come to any understanding, they are just here to vent their frustrations.

Just my 2 gil.

For one, your suggestion to DDoS their websites is quite illegal, so that's off the table. Spamming emails at them isn't going to do much of anything, either. They will still spam players. Now if SE wanted to hire legitimate players to combat the RMT, by flagging their accounts instantly when they receive a /tell, I'm sure many would jump at that opportunity, even for free, but SE doesn't give us that choice.

SE remade FF14 because they lost a ton of subs over it and were ashamed that they had tarnished the FF brand. They most likely don't have any such concerns over this issue. Veterans won't unsub as they enjoy the game outside of the RMT problem, so this isn't as pressing to them as when they were losing money from the original FF14. I'm not saying they are lazy, definitely not, but they do not seem to possess much care for this particular issue. I do not know why you find such comments insulting, SE is paid to filter through insults to actually see the constructive message, if there is one. They are a business, I assure you it does not hurt their feelings lol.

As an aside, I agree gilbuying should not be tolerated, even if by a friend.

[Gralna]

You know, people keep saying SE is in cahoots with gil sellers and RMT so that the company can profit off of them, but if that is the case, then why doesn't Square just sell gil directly outright? Why go through all the secrecy and backdoor deals?

RMT actually cost game companies quite a lot of revenue, this is from an article about how RMT can launder money.

Back in January 2008, Sony Online Entertainment CEO John Smedly told Massively that credit card fraud and chargebacks had cost SOE over $1 million over the previous six months. And Scott Hartsman, now the CEO of Trion Worlds, told Gamasutra in July 2011...

"Where you go buy gold from a disreputable gold site, and they say 'thank you' and deliver your gold, and sell your credit card number, or start registering accounts with your credit card.
"It's those kinds of things where people laugh and go, 'Oh, that never happens.' No. It happens. It happens a shitload. To the point where, over the last three or four years, I would dare anybody to ask an exec at a gaming company how much they've had to pay in Master Card and Visa fines, because of fraud. It happens a lot."

[MilesSaintboroguh]

...No @#*(! it costs companies money. I was asking people how Square even profits off of RMT and why they would go through so much trouble hiding it when they could just sell gil to players directly and be honest about it.

[Niwashi]

And reporting them like that would help yes, BUT it doesnt automatically delete the account, so said rmt can delete that character, make a new one, and send you a new message withing about 2 minutes of you reporting them.

You're mixing up reporting with blacklisting. The players' side of reporting is the first step. The whole point of that process is for those reports to be processed, and any that are true to result in banning the RMT's account. (That's their entire account, not just the one character.)

And yes, the ability to report immediately is desired because it's necessary to reach the banning step immediately as well. Right-click report has to be in conjunction with a 24/7 staff who will ban every genuine RMT account that gets reported, and will keep up with those reports as they come in. (Really, it's not like it's any harder for a GM to recognize whether a message is RMT spam or not than it is for any of the rest of us to recognize it. SE keeps talking about their "investigations" of such things, but the investigation for spam is just a half-second glance at it.)

The current problem is two-fold. First it's an awkward hassle to try and report anyone. But then, even if you do report them, they don't get banned any time soon. Both of those problems have to be fixed before it will stop the RMT spam.

[Nadirah]

Character creation locks do nothing.

I'm on Excalibur. Its locked most of the time. I'm still spammed constantly.

[Blood-Aki]

Character creation locks do nothing.

I'm on Excalibur. Its locked most of the time. I'm still spammed constantly.

That is because the current bots are not being banned/taken away SE does not take them right away, the same bots can sit there for weeks, even a month or 2 without ever being banned. creation locks prevent new characters from being created, but there is no need to create new ones when the olds ones are still there. i remember when i 1st started playing this, i reported 3 bots, and 1 rmt harvest bot, (underground, afk status, etc) i happend to past by that area 3 and a half weeks later and they were STILL THERE.