[dev1032] Reducing class affinity across the board

[weeble]

i like the system as well, just tweek it a little and all good. using a heal on glad already adds a longer cooldown from using it, if anything make it a little longer. yes they can add more then one heal but that removes u'r other moves. u giving up one move for another.

on top of that most this stuff probably helps more for grinding and getting parties going with any formation of groups, not endgame as much. pretty sure most glads won't have the points to be putting 2cures and haste on there bar over there own moves in something like dynamisis. like all have already said it's to make us all versatile, we all should be leveling other classes either way, we did subjobs in ffxi and this is just a way cooler way of doing it. and people who level more classes should have more versatility, it's not like putting my cure3 cures more then cure2 at lower lvs, it just waists more mp.

at the most archer will probably be nerfed at some point an that is just the class that is overpowered not the armorer system. also when new classes come with say like haste, it will probably help with smaller party structure to be able to mix and match rather then having to find the brd that don't want to party without specific classes and a party of people expecting a brd. (i didn't mind these circumstances in ffxi and i also like larger party groups over small but i do think it would help)

turning me after 6months into a standard class 24/7 would piss me and many off, like gaile said. i plan on leveling many classes not just one and i don't want any of them to be restricted. if they make it so i feel like a taru monk(with all the trimmings) and find myself in a game where for 5years i'm forced to play a blackmage rather then the other 8classes i have i will quit in 2minutes this time. versatility is awesome, fact i think they stole this idea from me lol, i would always say in ffxi ls chat they should of made a Shan Sung(mortal kombat character,changes into all the other ones) class that lets u use all the classes u have lv'd to 75 in one class. se has spy's in our chats!!!

[kukurumei]

i like the system as well, just tweek it a little and all good. using a heal on glad already adds a longer cooldown from using it, if anything make it a little longer. yes they can add more then one heal but that removes u'r other moves. u giving up one move for another.

on top of that most this stuff probably helps more for grinding and getting parties going with any formation of groups, not endgame as much. pretty sure most glads won't have the points to be putting 2cures and haste on there bar over there own moves in something like dynamisis. like all have already said it's to make us all versatile, we all should be leveling other classes either way, we did subjobs in ffxi and this is just a way cooler way of doing it. and people who level more classes should have more versatility, it's not like putting my cure3 cures more then cure2 at lower lvs, it just waists more mp.

at the most archer will probably be nerfed at some point an that is just the class that is overpowered not the armorer system. also when new classes come with say like haste, it will probably help with smaller party structure to be able to mix and match rather then having to find the brd that don't want to party without specific classes and a party of people expecting a brd. (i didn't mind these circumstances in ffxi and i also like larger party groups over small but i do think it would help)

turning me after 6months into a standard class 24/7 would piss me and many off, like gaile said. i plan on leveling many classes not just one and i don't want any of them to be restricted. if they make it so i feel like a taru monk(with all the trimmings) and find myself in a game where for 5years i'm forced to play a blackmage rather then the other 8classes i have i will quit in 2minutes this time. versatility is awesome, fact i think they stole this idea from me lol, i would always say in ffxi ls chat they should of made a Shan Sung(mortal kombat character,changes into all the other ones) class that lets u use all the classes u have lv'd to 75 in one class. se has spy's in our chats!!!

So I want every cheat skills I can to be the ultimate job...so there is only one class really, ultimate class.

The fact that you can switch skills instantly is bad enough. The fact that every "unbalance" skills can be equipped in massively different combinations makes any balancing a nightmare.

Basically every patch will have to devote 80% of their time to balancing skills so people don't keep using them. And every patch a list will have to come out for "most useful and most useless skill"

The alternative is to keep it the mess it's in now. If there's a skill/combination that's good, everyone will pick it up.

Not a very long term solution.

[weeble]

well it's not "the ultimate class" but yes the ultimate tank,healer,nuker,dps's. a tank no matter his flexiblity is still tanking and a healer mage is still healing, and there is just so many moves u can put in u'r bar either way.

in ultimate i mean is being able to add a cure and a sacrifice to u'r bar or remove and have 2more dmg lessening moves, or add 2buffs on it, a mage with provoke to turn a mob when farming something that needs a back break or multiple mobs are in play with small groups. it's not like u can have all 6 of those moves least not without removing other ones, its that u can be any of them at one point or time,i don't see it ruining any other roles. that is an awsome system, specially for those who play for long time and play many classes.

i doubt se would make it so u "have" to have 4 rank 50's classes leveled to be able to kill a endgame nm, least not anything they don't expect to be killed for 10years like av.

i think most of u'r complaints are feeling needed maybe? that maybe u'll be sitting playing u'r psp afk lfg rather then making a party or u just don't want to level anything more then just 1class? i understand when people who want to be a thurm and only nuke are being asked to heal or something that can be an issue, but u take that party or u don't. u don't completely ruin a good, very flexible system over it.

and on top all that, being able to just change u'r weapon, switch out u'r moves to what u want and keep playing is a god send too.

[kukurumei]

well it's not "the ultimate class" but yes the ultimate tank,healer,nuker,dps's. a tank no matter his flexiblity is still tanking and a healer mage is still healing, and there is just so many moves u can put in u'r bar either way.

Class is not quite the correct terms to this situation. It's more a role. Even a DoM can be a tank given how little it matters in the scheme of things.

As it stands even that is pretty melded. you have tank, melee, and healer...everything else mostly illusions that you're something more then you're not.

If you need to change roles currently, you drop from the party, you swap some skills, you join the party. The class matters little..maybe a DD will switch to arc for more damage, but that's about it.

There is one class currently, using an axe a bow or a lance is less relevant then it is something you're fooling yourself with.

And if you speak that long term will even it out, well it just makes things more and more convoluted. Either you have everyone at l33t status, or you have stupidly easy boss fights or any fight for that matter.

This is assuming there is a long term with this solution, It's more likely people will continue to bleed.

[Karvapeikko]

at the most archer will probably be nerfed at some point an that is just the class that is overpowered not the armorer system. also when new classes come with say like haste, it will probably help with smaller party structure to be able to mix and match rather then having to find the brd that don't want to party without specific classes and a party of people expecting a brd. (i didn't mind these circumstances in ffxi and i also like larger party groups over small but i do think it would help)

When I see Gla running around one-shotting mobs with tier 3 elemental nukes, I always get the feeling Gla should be nerfed....

OK Arc was a bad example. I know Arcs and Thms are ridiculously overpowered, but the system allows anyone who levelled these classes to use those supermoves that makes them overpowered. Thus we end up everyone getting these abilities to solo NMs. That is not a joke. Basically anyone with 50 Thm can do it with any other rank 50 DoM/DoW class. So basically: The. Problem. Will. Always. Remain. With. Current. System.
As long as we don't get changes, we are trapped in this cycle of levelling this and that to become a NM slaying demigod.

[Xor]

isnt that the point, i mean really. we all play a fantasy based game notionally killing stuff, in a notional world. how many of you played FF7 beat it then went back through the game to find every last materia, gain every last limit break (cherry bomb), kill every last mob and farm those drinks in the sunken airplane to max out all of clouds stats just to go back to sephroth and make him your jailhouse b***h? i sure as hell did and i earned every last bit of it. same with this game, yeah you gain rk50 in whatever, then in something else. all this talk of balance makes me want to vomit. Go back in history and tell Miyamoto Musashi that he's too OP and cant use his "two heavens" sword technique. I will tell you that i would rather be in a party full of OP'd toons that knows their toons and how to play then sit around for 2hrs hoping to find a healer or a tank that can barely do there job.
you only get some many points to em-place skills if you earn it you can use it. actually thinking about this game actually follows a lot of Miyamoto Musashi's philosophy he wrote in the Five Rings. If your wondering who Miyamoto Musashi was, lets just say he is in any accord the baddest mf'r ever to breathe fresh air.

some players are just too brain washed to realize the reason they made all those alts wasnt because they were bored with the first toon they capped, its because they wanted to be the BMFOC and now you got that chance and cry OP. i guarantee everyone there is content in-game right now that it wouldnt matter if you had every class to rk50 and the best skill combo imaginable you are still gonna need a party to kill it. the grandfather to every single MMO out is still pushing out expansions after 11years because they dont create balance, they create new ways to be better. the only part about using rk45+ skills on a noob class does is make is faster to grind through ranks we have already accomplished, and that doesnt even matter, there is really no need to grind out more then one class to 50, and trust me getting to rk50 once is almost enough to keep you from doing it again, but doing so just adds to your capabilities and the diversity you offer to your LS and you party. few people will ever get more then 2 offensive rk50 classes, fewer yet has the desire to see all their classes to rk50. Call it being OP if you want but that is the point, why else would you want better skills, more powerful weapons, the ability to optimize stats for your class.

[Karvapeikko]

isnt that the point, i mean really. we all play a fantasy based game notionally killing stuff, in a notional world. how many of you played FF7 beat it then went back through the game to find every last materia, gain every last limit break (cherry bomb), kill every last mob and farm those drinks in the sunken airplane to max out all of clouds stats just to go back to sephroth and make him your jailhouse b***h? i sure as hell did and i earned every last bit of it. same with this game, yeah you gain rk50 in whatever, then in something else. all this talk of balance makes me want to vomit. Go back in history and tell Miyamoto Musashi that he's too OP and cant use his "two heavens" sword technique. I will tell you that i would rather be in a party full of OP'd toons that knows their toons and how to play then sit around for 2hrs hoping to find a healer or a tank that can barely do there job.
you only get some many points to em-place skills if you earn it you can use it. actually thinking about this game actually follows a lot of Miyamoto Musashi's philosophy he wrote in the Five Rings. If your wondering who Miyamoto Musashi was, lets just say he is in any accord the baddest mf'r ever to breathe fresh air.

Have you tried to go back playing FFVII, start one-shotting everything you see, use many hours doing it AND have fun. I know I would get bored fast. Even when playing old school FFs I'm trying to kill challanging bosses as weak as possible to get need to use some strategy. I personally feel awarded when I kill that badass superboss barely surviving. It's fun few times to simply obliterate them, but when it's about game that usually takes years of dedication, I'd rather have challanges for those many years. You mentioned just adding tougher bosses. I would rather quit before playing even a full year if they choose that to be solution. Yay I levelled to R50, I'll just do it six more times except now I'm one-shotting everything! Basically it would make no difference to give everything else to R50 instead of wasting time doing something a retarded monkey could do. If my point doesn't get through, I'll quit posting on this thread. I don't want to do another dull FFX grinding to defeat two enemies that can't be one-shotted.

[Xor]

i would more then love to watch anyone 1 shot any mob rank 40+, of course 1 shotting most mobs up to the mid 20's isnt a hard feat. but mobs take on a whole new face starting in the late 20's, they hit harder and have a crap load more health. any and every MMO is the same way, mob start out generally weak as all hell for a reason, then progressively get harder to kill. and yeah i hope they do bring in some mobs that are insanely difficult to kill with any set-up cause i am freakin tired of having to have cookie cutter boring groups where tank does this, healer does that and blah blah boring. you can get to a point to where soloing in plausible but not very efficient. when you cast a spell of any nature outside that class it requires more time to CD, and is less effective. you can only use AoE if your either one of the casting classes, and even more so if your not spec'd for casting and oh yeah your weapon(s) pay for your casting as well. if your worried about strategy work out how to kill higher ranked mobs with non-traditional group make-ups, thats the best part about the way this game is, its completely non-traditional and some people cant wrap their brain cells around that idea and make it work. like in any MMO forums the minority just complain about the minority group grinding to get to a point where they are a huge combat multiplier, and i know that because the people like me that play to enjoy the game the way they made it usually dont waste our time posting in forums or doing the polls because we are busy working at becoming demigods

you know what else is boring as hell, getting to the end game hoping to get into raids then starting a noob and grinding through to cap just to repeat the process. this game eliminates the need to keep making new toons, you can slap on a new weapon and work on an alt class until something comes up where your main set-up is needed. about the only thing you can really do is increase you survivability in most situations.

they change the class system and we are just gonna have FFXI vrs 2.0, and nobody wants that. If you cant handle all that grinding then just play a main class with maybe an alt class, thats your prerogative, all i can say is the dev team should get a mass vote. a vote that would require 90% of the paying players and work off the mass majority instead of reading posts made by a few players with too many "good idea fairies". at least that way when people rage quit it wouldnt be 90% of the good players doing it.

that mass vote should go for anything major that is being thought of being implemented. bean counters dont get happy when hardly no clientele is coming in and a good chunk of clientele leave over a pretty bad choice.

[Karvapeikko]

they change the class system and we are just gonna have FFXI vrs 2.0, and nobody wants that. If you cant handle all that grinding then just play a main class with maybe an alt class, thats your prerogative, all i can say is the dev team should get a mass vote. a vote that would require 90% of the paying players and work off the mass majority instead of reading posts made by a few players with too many "good idea fairies". at least that way when people rage quit it wouldnt be 90% of the good players doing it.

that mass vote should go for anything major that is being thought of being implemented. bean counters dont get happy when hardly no clientele is coming in and a good chunk of clientele leave over a pretty bad choice.

Damn I wish I personally knew 90% of the player base. I'm not trying to imply FFXIV should Become FFXI-2, in fact I know it'll never will. There most likely will be traditional jobs applied, just not in the same way as most of the haters seem to think. If people have more time to grind they can be stronger than others for all I care, but current skillsystem doesn't really encourage to be different, it only encourages to get same skills as everyone else has. What I want is game where you don't need to get an optimal party to accomplish anything, but when optimal party doesn't mean tank, 2 healers, debuffer, lancer and rest to be copy-paste dd archers like current system.

I would also like that mass vote. It could be implemented as a step during login or something to get accurate view of what people want. If this game remains to be like current system nearly without any difference between classes, I'll just stop playing and you'll never have to hear from me again, unless I get really unlucky. I have hope that FFXIV will become a success and being a realistic I know current system doesn't attract people to play this and with current player base it's clear that FFXIV hasn't succeeded yet.

[kukurumei]

It's naive thinking to put "me" in "community". There is a very basically problem with the "I want to be different, and unique, but better then all the rest" type of mentality.

It's frankly never going to work. It's a simple delusion to think that custom classes of this level will ever work in a community. If A is better then B, then people will want A. There is no if ands and buts. The moment you let people choose A's and B's it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Don't need a mass vote to see that, we already had it voted. First by leaving, and second by voicing why.