[dev1032] Reducing class affinity across the board

[Abriael]

Yeah. I get that. It really depends on how it's implemented, both ways could work, or even a combination of them.

[Karvapeikko]

I also suggest heavily lowering affinities, so there would be more idea sticking to skills from your "main" class. If someone feels that he wants to use Feint and Trammel with GLA for example, he shouldn't be able to use them almost as efficiently as LNC immediatly as he gets them. I support implementing more affinity traits per class (at ranks 30, 40 and 50 for example) and balancing costs of equipping them preventing jack-of-all-trades types of characters as you couldn't just equip massive amounts of them, but select few.
Also the AP costs of equipping skills should be fixed so everyone wouldn't consider Cure X to be a must have in your hotbar and instead save precious space for more important skills and to actually look for a real healer to help. Of course people could just get 50 CON and get the traits but it would force to leave some other handy skills out because they wouldn't be worth it without traits.

[Synthesis]

To be honest I like current armoury system. Armoury system is good.

I posted it somewhere else, that guild skills (10mnd > 10str, etc.) could be replaced with "class's skills, these skills could be usable only with the specific class selected" That would make classes more different later on. If you add gear for specific class, whole set equipped could add some special skill as well. But I dont want pure this or pure that. And its already noticeable when I play conj I heal much more with cure than other class. I dont see why it should be even more limited or reduced, armoury system would only get gimped that way and we would get again more closer to "pure this" and "pure that". And meh, this is no solution. I like the freedom of armoury system.

[Celtodeno]

Yeah i have to disagree totally. The whole point of the game as it is now is that you combine class skill to make your own class. I understand people want a change to the system but what i think people really want is a Reason to be a certain class. right now there are very few party based challenges in the game and so no reason for any certain class. I think they can add alot to this game with out destroying the cross class skill system. I mean why would i use any skill that only gives me a 50% effect? There would be almost no reason to level more than a tank, DD and healer of one type.

[Karvapeikko]

Actually, my suggestion is a little similar to this, except there isn't a strict "limit" per say... Personally I would want to see that you would need to equip some of those traits or have certain armor type that gives you ANY affinity to other classes. [With zero affinity, you would not be able to use any of the class actions/traits] I'm hoping however they individualize the classes they will also make it that the classes would have an innate afinity with other class(es). I don't want to see this limited to the point where it becomes a subjob, because beauty of the armoury system was that you wouldn't be "forced" to level up something else to make your class function well. But at this point, it's so flexible that you're almost forced to level EVERYTHING. So I do think there is a serious need for balancing, regardless if it is congruent with my suggestion or not. Who knows? Maybe the changes they make to the classes themselves will be enough of a balance.

I agree there must be limits what can be done with a class. Right now as a Archer I can buff myself before fight, add Invigorate to generate massive amount TP, unleash major damage at start with RS+Blindside+Multishot and Fero+Hawk's eye+Trif and finish with spamming Skull Sunders and Trammels and whatever I feel best within all classes. If I need healing, I'll just throw Sacrifice II and Cure II, which almost completely heal me and leave me with Regen. That is NOT a balanced class. Other screwed up part is that striking an enemy with my knuckles can rain arrows upon enemies!

I understand that people want to use skills they've learned and truthfully speaking i'm not very willing to let go of my Cure/Sacrifice, but if it's for more balanced system, I'm for it. It would also help if they'd change the class=weapon system and give multiple weapons for each class and share some with their weaponskills so there'd be shared weaponskills and you could share the skills not tied to weapon at will.

I'm not sure how skill-sharing could be balanced between DoM and DoW, since only DoW seems to actually benefit from the other (Maybe armor related or something). Something I would also think cool is that you could equip/branch from within your class to get different unique skills. Archer for example could branch to Rng or Sniper and anything that can be thought of with skills that support their role. Rng could be more powerful than Sniper, but Sniper could be some kind of incap type with skills like Target: head or Target: legs (FFT style).

[Lewiz5]

The thing that really worries me about the idea of lowering affinity is that there is a very strong possibility that a lot of skills will become completely useless to a lot of classes. This would take out a lot of the customization that the game has right now and would really hurt the games appeal.

I think lowering affinity across the board isn't the best solution to this issue. I think a better solution is something of a sub-job like system. Instead of drastically lowering the affinity of all the classes to other classes, make it so you can choose two classes that don't lose as much affinity as the others.

You're primary sub-class has around 80% - 70% affinity, and your secondary sub-class has 60% affinity. The other classes have 40% affinity. This would fix the issue of being able to use all skills to their fullest as any class, while still keeping the customization that we have now and possibly even boosting the uniqueness of your class.

For example, let's say you want to have something of a melee/magic hybrid, something like a Dark Knight. So you start out as a Marauder, then you make your primary sub-class Thaumaturge, and your secondary sub-class Pugilist. The Thaumaturge spells would function at 80% to 70% potency, and the Pugilist skills would function at 60% potency. All the other classes (Gladiator, Archer, Lancer, and Conjurer) would function at 40% potency.

I think this would be the best solution because it wouldn't be as restrictive as the FFXI sub-job system, wouldn't be as overpowered as the system we have now, and would let people play the way they want to play.

[Gaile]

Honestly? If they implemented this suggestion, I would probably stop playing. I did not buy this game to be shoe-horned into playing my character exactly like everyone else in order to be considered "efficient" enough to garner a party invite. If I wanted that, I'd go back to FFXI. I bought the game in great part because it presented the opportunity to mix and match abilities to create a vast array of tactical combinations, something the FFXI subjob system was supposed to do but only did in a very limited fashion.

I keep hearing people complain about class uniqueness... the lack of uniqueness doesn't stem from the way the classes are implemented, it stems from the fact that the game doesn't really challenge you to do more than spam buttons. Change classes to be more restrictive in scope and less entertaining to play, and you still won't have the coveted party dynamics everyone's apparently looking for, you'll just have a lot less players on your server to form a party with.

[weeble]

i like the system as well, just tweek it a little and all good. using a heal on glad already adds a longer cooldown from using it, if anything make it a little longer. yes they can add more then one heal but that removes u'r other moves. u giving up one move for another.

on top of that most this stuff probably helps more for grinding and getting parties going with any formation of groups, not endgame as much. pretty sure most glads won't have the points to be putting 2cures and haste on there bar over there own moves in something like dynamisis. like all have already said it's to make us all versatile, we all should be leveling other classes either way, we did subjobs in ffxi and this is just a way cooler way of doing it. and people who level more classes should have more versatility, it's not like putting my cure3 cures more then cure2 at lower lvs, it just waists more mp.

at the most archer will probably be nerfed at some point an that is just the class that is overpowered not the armorer system. also when new classes come with say like haste, it will probably help with smaller party structure to be able to mix and match rather then having to find the brd that don't want to party without specific classes and a party of people expecting a brd. (i didn't mind these circumstances in ffxi and i also like larger party groups over small but i do think it would help)

turning me after 6months into a standard class 24/7 would piss me and many off, like gaile said. i plan on leveling many classes not just one and i don't want any of them to be restricted. if they make it so i feel like a taru monk(with all the trimmings) and find myself in a game where for 5years i'm forced to play a blackmage rather then the other 8classes i have i will quit in 2minutes this time. versatility is awesome, fact i think they stole this idea from me lol, i would always say in ffxi ls chat they should of made a Shan Sung(mortal kombat character,changes into all the other ones) class that lets u use all the classes u have lv'd to 75 in one class. se has spy's in our chats!!!

[kukurumei]

i like the system as well, just tweek it a little and all good. using a heal on glad already adds a longer cooldown from using it, if anything make it a little longer. yes they can add more then one heal but that removes u'r other moves. u giving up one move for another.

on top of that most this stuff probably helps more for grinding and getting parties going with any formation of groups, not endgame as much. pretty sure most glads won't have the points to be putting 2cures and haste on there bar over there own moves in something like dynamisis. like all have already said it's to make us all versatile, we all should be leveling other classes either way, we did subjobs in ffxi and this is just a way cooler way of doing it. and people who level more classes should have more versatility, it's not like putting my cure3 cures more then cure2 at lower lvs, it just waists more mp.

at the most archer will probably be nerfed at some point an that is just the class that is overpowered not the armorer system. also when new classes come with say like haste, it will probably help with smaller party structure to be able to mix and match rather then having to find the brd that don't want to party without specific classes and a party of people expecting a brd. (i didn't mind these circumstances in ffxi and i also like larger party groups over small but i do think it would help)

turning me after 6months into a standard class 24/7 would piss me and many off, like gaile said. i plan on leveling many classes not just one and i don't want any of them to be restricted. if they make it so i feel like a taru monk(with all the trimmings) and find myself in a game where for 5years i'm forced to play a blackmage rather then the other 8classes i have i will quit in 2minutes this time. versatility is awesome, fact i think they stole this idea from me lol, i would always say in ffxi ls chat they should of made a Shan Sung(mortal kombat character,changes into all the other ones) class that lets u use all the classes u have lv'd to 75 in one class. se has spy's in our chats!!!

So I want every cheat skills I can to be the ultimate job...so there is only one class really, ultimate class.

The fact that you can switch skills instantly is bad enough. The fact that every "unbalance" skills can be equipped in massively different combinations makes any balancing a nightmare.

Basically every patch will have to devote 80% of their time to balancing skills so people don't keep using them. And every patch a list will have to come out for "most useful and most useless skill"

The alternative is to keep it the mess it's in now. If there's a skill/combination that's good, everyone will pick it up.

Not a very long term solution.

[Karvapeikko]

at the most archer will probably be nerfed at some point an that is just the class that is overpowered not the armorer system. also when new classes come with say like haste, it will probably help with smaller party structure to be able to mix and match rather then having to find the brd that don't want to party without specific classes and a party of people expecting a brd. (i didn't mind these circumstances in ffxi and i also like larger party groups over small but i do think it would help)

When I see Gla running around one-shotting mobs with tier 3 elemental nukes, I always get the feeling Gla should be nerfed....

OK Arc was a bad example. I know Arcs and Thms are ridiculously overpowered, but the system allows anyone who levelled these classes to use those supermoves that makes them overpowered. Thus we end up everyone getting these abilities to solo NMs. That is not a joke. Basically anyone with 50 Thm can do it with any other rank 50 DoM/DoW class. So basically: The. Problem. Will. Always. Remain. With. Current. System.
As long as we don't get changes, we are trapped in this cycle of levelling this and that to become a NM slaying demigod.