Ascians

[Rocl]

So why isn't Lahabrea able to flee when Thordan attacks him?

Weakened too much from his battle with the Warrior of Light? There isn't a super good reason, but we know Ascians are able to teleport in/out of that part of the Flagship so it isn't some kind of Allagan anti-teleport manuever. Why did Ascian prime disappear/teleport away only to return and split? There doesn't seem to be a good reason-- maybe Hydaelyn forces their hand somehow (they curse Hydaelyn before teleporting away, but that could mean almost anything given context)

It looks like there's some sort of charge-up time for them to flee to the Aetherial Rift, as Igeyorhm has enough time to publicly announce her intent to do so before we chuck the super rare and valuable white auracite at her.

(Also why is Nidhogg's left eye out of aether after that?? I guess the years of being used to channel the Azure Dragoon's power or something? The battle with Nidhogg/Azys Lla barrier I guess too, but man it seems a little ridiculous the Eye is stated to be so powerful but then is so quickly spent. It makes the Ascians/Allagans seem way stronger than dragons which isn't something I really got before as it took them teaming up to subdue Meracydia)

Thordan's bemoaning our use of "mortal contrivances" while simultaneously then yelling at Lahabrea for underestimating mortals bothers me as well but w/e w/e I'm off track

tl;dr: There's no good reason Lahabrea didn't flee. The best you could argue is that he didn't have enough stamina/power/Ascian juice left to do so, but Igeyorhm was about to do flee sooooooo yeah

[CyrilLucifer]

Basically, I'm assuming that the "Numbered Item" refers to a hierarchy, but does the number determine the leading named Ascian, or does the item? Are the Twelfth X's all Lahabrea's, or are all the Swords and Staves? Or, indeed, only one of the two between Sword and Staff, with the other being a different Ascian lending his underling for a mission?

12th seems to refer to the number in the Zodiac that they serve. Lahabrea, who represents Pisces, would be master of the 12th.

Belated edit: It also is why Chalice goes on and on about how the "waters are infinite." In Astrology, Pisces is a member of the watery triad/trigon along with Cancer (Pashtarot) and Scorpio (Nabriales).

What was most interesting to me about the SMN quest was the comment that Lahabrea seemed to have "uplifted" the lower Ascians. I believe that's the exact term they used. There's obviously nowhere near enough information to base any accurate assumptions on it, but it does make me incredibly curious.

[Cilia]

Are the Twelfth X's all Lahabrea's, or are all the Swords and Staves? Or, indeed, only one of the two between Sword and Staff, with the other being a different Ascian lending his underling for a mission?

I haven't done the post-50 SMN stuff either, but...

I would theorize that the "Twelfth X" Ascians are all Lahabrea's underlings. This ties into the Zodiac theme the Ascians derive from the Ivalice mythos. Lahabrea, in terms of the Zodiac, represents Pisces, the twelfth Zodiac Sign, so all of his underlings would be "Twelfth X." By that same token, all of Nabriales' Black Masks would be "Eighth X" and Igeyorhm "Ninth X," but without anything to verify this it's just a theory...

EDIT
Beat to the punch...

On the other hand, the lesser Ascians seem to be named after the Minor Arcana. Not sure if anyone pointed this out yet.

So why isn't Lahabrea able to flee when Thordan attacks him?

Probably because we beat him to within an inch of his life beforehand? Ascians can teleport, but when Igeyorhm tries to do so she takes time to do it - suggesting that, when weakened, Ascians can't instantly teleport. While they do possess pseudo-immortality, the Ascians still have to act in real time; if they could instantly teleport at any time they would be completely invincible without a mortal vessel, and none of them could ever possibly be killed. Nabriales and Igeyorhm would just warp away when we throw the White Auracite at them, Lahabrea would just warp away when King Thordan is about to kill him, and we'd never be rid of the headache.

It's either that or for story purposes.

[CyrilLucifer]

I wouldn't necessarily say that we don't have anything to verify the theory that Xth represents the Ascian they serve. Chalice's dialogue has lots of watery puns, despite Lahabrea being fire-based in XIV. With higher servants not matching the master's element, but rather his "trigon", that absolutely puts 12th under Pisces, Cancer, or Scorpio as well for reasons I edited into my post up there. It doesn't completely cement it, but it does add to its defense.

Edit: And this is, of course, ignoring that they openly say they serve Lahabrea.

[Cilia]

I wouldn't necessarily say that we don't have anything to verify the theory that Xth represents the Ascian they serve. Chalice's dialogue has lots of watery puns, despite Lahabrea being fire-based. With the servants not matching the master's element, but rather his "trigon", that absolutely puts 12th under Pisces, Cancer, or Scorpio as well for reasons I edited into my post up there.

Since when has Lahabrea been fire-based?

In the Ivalice mythos, Mateus is the ice esper. (Water is a very related element.) During the battle with the Ascian Prime, it uses both Ice and Fire moves; you could say the Fire is from Igeyorhm (who has the poorly defined element of "soul" in Ivalice mythos), while the Ice fits right in with Lahabrea's connection to Mateus. Additionally, as you pointed out, Pisces is one of the three Water-elemental Zodiac Signs, so the Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice making water puns is to be expected. Additionally, given the Chalice is the Water-aligned suit of the Minor Arcana (which the lesser Ascians seem to take their names from), this only makes more sense.

[CyrilLucifer]

It seems to work differently in XIV than Ivalice. Gameplay-wise, Lahabrea was definitely, absolutely sticking to using Dark and Fire elemental magic in the Research Facility. Same with Igeyorhm using Dark and Ice and Nabriales with Dark and Earth in their battles. That was basically the entire point of the two working together was that their elements in-battle contrasted. That's why you attack Igeyorhm first: her freezing can be really, really annoying if you don't.

It was a really weird moment for me seeing him having that focus on fire because, logically based on Ivalice lore and astrology, he shouldn't have been. It also shows that we can't follow Ivalice completely, despite it being a backbone.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Hmm…Even with the Sword and Staff being Lahabrea's underlings, can we be certain that the Chalice and Pentacle are his as well?

Yes, we can be very sure that the quartet of "Twelfth" Ascians are Lahabrea's minions.

During their confrontation with the WoL in the summoner storyline, the Twelfth Pentacle says: "You have earned the ire of Lahabrea's most loyal servants."

I don't know, however, if that implies there are other underlings beyond the Twelfth Chalice, Sword, Staff and Pentacle. (Thanks to Cilia, for pointing out that these are the four suits of the Minor Arcana. I didn't notice that.)

I don't recall that Y'mhitra said anything about Lahabrea "uplifting" his minions, though. But, then again, I didn't record verbatim everything that was said during the quest line, so I may have just missed it.

[Zohar_Lahar]

Now one big question: Was the Ascian of the Twelth Pentacle both the Masked Mage we face early on and Travanchet?

[CyrilLucifer]

Yes, we can be very sure that the quartet of "Twelfth" Ascians are Lahabrea's minions.
I don't recall that Y'mhitra said anything about Lahabrea "uplifting" his minions, though. But, then again, I didn't record verbatim everything that was said during the quest line, so I may have just missed it.

No, it was actually the Ascians themselves that say that. Which is why it interests me.

[Cilia]

I just ran the ARF myself to verify that Lahabrea uses fire spells... yep, he totally does. Well, that's cool. I don't mind; in fact, I'd rather not have everything be predictable by past games.

Anyway, regarding the Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice's water puns... Even if Lahabrea isn't the "ice Ascian," he's still linked to Pisces though Mateus, which is a water-aligned Zodiac sign. His personal Minor Arcana, the Chalice, is also the Minor Arcana of water, so his water puns aren't out of place.