do I hafta..

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

That has never happened. Likewise, most Bards never use their Song skills, and nobody uses their self-healing skills. It's rather silly to think that the Healer should be contributing to DPS while the rest of the party does nothing to help heal themselves or... avoid taking damage entirely.

If the Healer "has to" DPS, then that is a tactless admission that you think the DPS are not pulling their weight. If a DPS casts Cure/Physick on another player, that's the DPS tactlessly admitting they think the Healer is awful. Similar statements can be made about players casting Stone Skin or Protect that aren't the healer. (Keeping in mind that it's not available to CNJ/WHM before level 34)

So what you're saying is that "because others are playing half assed, you should play half assed". Excellent advice, I think?

Also, the contrary of whatever you claim can be made as well:
Bards never use their song skills -> bards actually do use their songs when needed
Nobody uses self-healing skills -> Warriors use these all the time. Whenever a DPS player uses them they simply go unnoticed or become pure overheal (Bloodbath primarily)
Rest of the party does nothing to help -> There are parties out there who actually do. Even if not the entire party does it as whole, some of them do.
Healer dps never made a difference -> party wipe at <5% because neither healer did any form of damage
Healer dps never made a difference part 2 -> push phases quicker which would save both healers MP. T12 being the prime example
Healer dps never made a difference part 3 -> Even in content like CT, ST and WoD. ST being killing crazy dog lady, Rugby-man and phantom of the opera guy before their final mechanic happens. Effectively saving everyone several minutes, especially on the rugby guy.

Everything you cram out is extremely subjective and one-sided. In the other topic you even acted as if you made this game yourself. 3% damage contribution? 25% of a dps class? Have you even set foot in the other half of the game yet? Of course a healer can only contribute 3% of the total damage in Crystal Tower. That's simply because of the sheer number of people there. Everyone's share gets smaller. Present some facts to support those claims before making them.

[KisaiTenshi]

So what you're saying is that "because others are playing half assed, you should play half assed". Excellent advice, I think?

Don't put words in my mouth. It's not the healers job to take up the slack of half-assed players who only want to be carried through content. The larger the party, the more frequently this happens. You should not be DPS'ing while there are people that need healing.


Case in point. When Alliance A and Alliance B have full HP, and Alliance C nearly wipes out... why is that? We've probably all been there where you get the bum party where nobody is paying attention to anything but themselves.


Let's see:

- Someone complains about dying
- WHM is DPS'ing while there are healable targets in the Alliance
- Bard not Singing, do they have no TP?
- BLM firing Fire III during Umbra Ice , which is more likely a an error on the part of the BLM.

I'm not taking screenshots just to go "oh look at the dumb PUG groups I get stuck with", rather I've been trying to grab screenshots precisely to use against the boneheaded "WHM must DPS" arguments. Both screenshots are from the same WoD run, but different Bosses.

The 3% argument was against a 4-man light party, because the DPS are DPS'ing 100% of the time. Even if you were only healing 50% of the time, if one encounter lasts one minute, and you spend 30 seconds DPS'ing, the DPS's have been DPS'ing for 60 seconds and the Tank's damage counts as DPS. So you have 240 seconds to consider, of which you provide 30 seconds of DPS time, at most that is 12%. Nobody gets that much time. You get 5 seconds, that is closer to 2%. The longer it takes to defeat something, the less relevant your damage is. So unless you can wipe everything out in one hit, your time is better spent healing.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Don't put words in my mouth. It's not the healers job to take up the slack of half-assed players who only want to be carried through content. The larger the party, the more frequently this happens. You should not be DPS'ing while there are people that need healing.

You said something in this context yourself:

That has never happened. Likewise, most Bards never use their Song skills, and nobody uses their self-healing skills. It's rather silly to think that the Healer should be contributing to DPS while the rest of the party does nothing to help heal themselves or... avoid taking damage entirely.

Case in point. When Alliance A and Alliance B have full HP, and Alliance C nearly wipes out... why is that? We've probably all been there where you get the bum party where nobody is paying attention to anything but themselves.


Let's see:

- Someone complains about dying
- WHM is DPS'ing while there are healable targets in the Alliance
- Bard not Singing, do they have no TP?
- BLM firing Fire III during Umbra Ice , which is more likely a an error on the part of the BLM.

Oh look, more examples of Crystal Tower content. But there's alot of info missing:
1) Your LB bar is consumed not too long ago. Judging from the chat, Cloud of darkness just used "Flood of darkness" (or whatever is called) or those hyper clouds appeared. You guys also have this vulnerability stack up. So it's already in the later phases. Might have been those worms as well.
2) With the fact your group alone has vulnerability up stacks and so does the tank and a good number more in the other alliances, it may have been inevitable that they died in the first place.
3) It's also possible that people were getting lasered on the spot because whoever got marked didn't move
4) The fact your tank is in sword oath indicates that your tank isn't tanking. So why weren't you helping out them healing? Have you even examined what the tank was wearing? Maybe he/she wasn't properly geared to main tank and was simply getting trucked. Even moreso with vulnerability up.
5) Someone complained about dying, but that's in your party and that was during the clouds phase from the looks of it. So he probably had too many vulnerability stacks and took a fireball/meteor thing or the alliance failed on a few markers,
6) WHM was DPSing while there are healable targets in the alliance. So why is your MP pool nearly full? Don't be the pot that calls the kettle black. There's also no indication how many targets were healable outside your party. Only 3 from the first picture. There's also no indication how long ago that was. It could very well have been like 2 seconds ago and you just took this screenshot and made some random, wild claims. So back to the first point (1), your MP is nearly full while the other healer's is slightly spent. This could mean the other healer did all the AoE healing while you ran around doing -something-. Whatever it is you were planning to do. Running to the spot for the meteors while there's already someone on it?
7) That's one bard not singing, bring data of more samples if you want to prove your point on this. Also, songs consume MP, not TP. There's also the possibility that there was already foe requiem up, then why would he use it himself? It's not like it stacks
8) Black Mage casting Fire III during Umbral Ice is actually the right thing to do. What are you smoking? Sure, it's not your job and inb4 you defend yourself with "Not my job so I didn't know". Then don't make claims as if he's the one not knowing what he's doing here.

I'm not taking screenshots just to go "oh look at the dumb PUG groups I get stuck with", rather I've been trying to grab screenshots precisely to use against the boneheaded "WHM must DPS" arguments. Both screenshots are from the same WoD run, but different Bosses.

Two pictures one being cut out completely where it is impossible to determine whether the screenshots actually belong together. You even cut out the most crucial parts of the "bigger" one that could determine which phase it is. This is called evidence fabrication.

The 3% argument was against a 4-man light party, because the DPS are DPS'ing 100% of the time. Even if you were only healing 50% of the time, if one encounter lasts one minute, and you spend 30 seconds DPS'ing, the DPS's have been DPS'ing for 60 seconds and the Tank's damage counts as DPS. So you have 240 seconds to consider, of which you provide 30 seconds of DPS time, at most that is 12%. Nobody gets that much time. You get 5 seconds, that is closer to 2%. The longer it takes to defeat something, the less relevant your damage is. So unless you can wipe everything out in one hit, your time is better spent healing.

And still no concrete numbers or video footage. I just did Halatali in cleric's stance for 90% of the time, meaning I was DPSing 90% of the time while no one died. If this statement would not be valid, then the credibility of your statements can also be questioned.

Edit:
Actually, I can somewhat prove that those pictures don't belong with each other.



Looking at your interface, Alliance A - Even if you censored it, it's logical it's Alliance A - is a bit in front of Cloud of Darkness, while Cloud herself is hardly visible bar a strand of her hair. Judging from that position of every element in your HUD you didn't bother customizing your interface, so it's safe to assume Alliance C is right next to Alliance A, which is cut off for your convenience.


So what does this lead to? Let's go back to your picture of Alliance C:


You didn't censor out the alliance name, unlike with Alliance A. And there's actually a bit of background texture there above the party box. But mostly black with a bit of purple/red. So where's Cloud of darkness in this picture? There aren't even any light particles from the mechanics anywhere near it. Even if cloud falls out of the picture and there happens to be no mechanic particles, the surrounding air doesn't even match up with the background of the alliance box. I believe the conclusion is pretty obvious by now.

[Ramien]

Even if you're not comfortable going full stance dancing/dpsing as a scholar, try to find time to lay down Shadow Flare whenever possible. This is not for the DoT effect; it's for the slow/heavy which helps keep your tank from getting hit as much. Of course, the extra time you buy yourself then will also give you more time to dps if you so choose...

[Feylie]

Don't put words in my mouth. It's not the healers job to take up the slack of half-assed players who only want to be carried through content. The larger the party, the more frequently this happens. You should not be DPS'ing while there are people that need healing.

Staaahp. Healer DPS is legit.

http://puu.sh/gwr0X/01fb9ec9ac.png

[Cynfael]

@Lyrica: We already know from more than one thread that this KisaiTenshi person bases their entire notion of appropriate healer gameplay on worst-case scenarios that crop up in alliance raids with other people who similarly do not know how to play their classes well.

I can understand someone just not wanting to try to improve, even if I strongly disagree with that mindset; what I don't understand is why they would actively express their opinion that subpar, tunnel-visioned gameplay is the ideal.

I tried articulate arguments with well-reasoned points; they have no effect. It seems that most players who have adopted this mindset are determined to defend to the death their entitlement to mediocre gameplay.

[Moqi]

DPs when I heal? I'm no where near max level on my whm, but I don't remember dpsing on my sch either when prae first came out. Is that fail?

Your DPS contribution is worthless. Do it for fun if you want to, but don't feel pressured to do it. You'll probably start DPSing anyway after a while due to boredom, dungeons don't require much healing.

Ignore raiders talking about Coil, it's a completely different situation, but they never fail to bring it up even though it has nothing to do with this.

[JillyBean]

In direct response to the OP, I'll say what I say to everyone that asks this or discusses this question~

As a career healer, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I wouldn't go too far as saying damned in general. But by bringing it to the forums, yes, that's true.

Simply because DPSing isn't mandatory. Definitely nice as a group as whole, but not something that would brand you as a terrible white mage/scholar if you don't DPS - Which applies to Scholar more often than White Mage.

The direct cause (more or less) of this whole argument lies in a different topic. A more recent one: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-damage/page8

It was basically the casual player base vs endgame player base. Long story short: Arguments frequently happen between these two groups with one bring brand as elitist, those-who-no-longer-have-fun or "spreadsheet nerds". It's almost like they're bringing in the high school community in. Where the kids who get good grades are being brand as "nerds" while the bullies are treated as celebrities.

[Cynfael]

Your DPS contribution is worthless. Do it for fun if you want to, but don't feel pressured to do it. You'll probably start DPSing anyway after a while due to boredom, dungeons don't require much healing.

Ignore raiders talking about Coil, it's a completely different situation, but they never fail to bring it up even though it has nothing to do with this.

It's flat-out untrue that healer DPS contribution is worthless in dungeons. The only difference with Coil is that DPS-checks, control of phase changes, and overall time allotted to complete the duty all matter much more, whereas you can be lazy in a dungeon and still stumble through.

Healers can contribute large amounts of damage in a dungeon run and should be encouraged to do so while their primary responsibility (not allowing players to die) is being met.