Pro tip: Do NOT expect new player to get tips from the forums

[NyarukoW]

This should be self-explanatory. You can not expect new and newer player to know what they do not know yet, anymore that you can push a string.

In response to:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...a-dungeon-rant

What you can do is help, teach, and guide new players when you meet them. Be inclusive and make adjustment to accommodate them. Some of them on PS3/4 may not even have a keyboard and can't chat or chat response comes like 2 minutes later.

[MageBlack]

Mindless zerging speed run = 0 challange.

Teaching someone new how to be better = Hardcore because I bet most people cant even be bothered to try.

EDIT: I wanted to elaborate.

Communication is key, that is not really hard to debate. Absent that communication though, what can be done to help people understand whats going on or how can you help others succeed.

Observation. Say you tried to communicate, were met with silence, then proceeded to run as a speedrun. Then you die because Tank couldnt hold threat or DPS wasnt even there or not using AOE moves, or healer wasnt on the ball for healing. Isolate the issue then try to compensate, pull smaller groups, run as a normal run, hotbar an extra heal for emergency help. Party play is teamwork. The most experienced player in the group has a responsibility to assist their other members, condescending, rude, accusatory comments do not help.

We also need to keep in mind that there are a large portion of Console users that are a bit of an anomaly in the realm of MMO's, How many MMO's are there on consoles and how popular are they? Few and far between. Most Console users this is their first MMO, they may not be proficient with use of a controller, the menus, the subtleties of MMO "code of conduct" (You gotta at least watch a vid on a fight before doing it! Check out the forums! etc).

Gamepad play does not mean anything but most console users that are on a gamepad and may not have a keyboard. I know, personally, that I get really upset when I see someone berating another player because they are not performing to the expected level of the other player. Have a little consideration and show some humanity. there is another person on the other end of those pixels. People like the one in the thread mentioned in the OP is why I prefer to be in the party when my son plays. For the most part, people are impressed when they party with him saying that he did really well (I tell them Im training him so be patient) then at the end of the run I reveal that he did ok for a 9yo. but then you get the odd shining example of a human being who likes to berate others telling them to uninstall, they are the worst player they have ever seen, go kill yourself and other wonderful phrases i would rather not mention here.

Too often people forget their first time in a new kind of game, learning the ropes, how it felt to have that eureka moment when some part of the content finally made sense. Too often I see people who are so self absorbed they cant even contemplate putting themselves in someone elses shoes or even entertain the idea that not every player they run into is going to be as good as they are.

Honestly, I would rather play with a bad team that is losing all the time and eventually triumphs over the final boss and has fun than be in a dungeon where some asshat takes it upon themselves to demean other players for a simple mistake that didnt even kill anyone. So please, Don't be an asshat.

[Ecks007]

Any person that is into this game should be semi familiar with it's official forums. I'm not saying that they need to post daily, but perusing and skimming a few times a week will only help you. A) See some general census about what people are complaining about or happy about. And B) to occasionally discern some actual factual information that might not be so easy to find unless you were deliberately searching for it.

I would suggest all players, new and old, peruse through the forums to some degree. There are some jems in here certainly. I often find a lot of information I probably wouldn't have known about as soon as I had were it not for people on the forums. Granted there's a lot of BS to dig through when determining what is a useful/helpful/informative thread verses a complete waste of time. Generally speaking, the first page in a thread (if not the first post) will guide you as to if the whole thing is worth your time or not.

/shrug

Personally for me these forums have provided an enormous amount of information and insights. Sure, there's a lot of trolls and the like, useless/stupid posts but unless you check, however briefly, you never know.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

I Disagree with you completely.

• I don't expect people to read the Forums.
• If I ask you a specific question, specifically, 'do you need extra help / do you need me to slow down / etc / etc' and the answer is yes, I need you to tell me. I'm not psychic. Much like dealing with a person with either a physical or mental handicap, you do not talk to them as though they are handicapped. If they can't keep up or are struggling, then you offer help. Otherwise you run the risk of being patronizing / degrading.
• Stop making excuses for people with Gamepads. I ALWAYS Use a gamepad, and emote /yes or /no is NOT Difficult. It does not take 2 minutes. New players who are struggling in particular, AND are using gamepads without keyboards, an and should be encouraged to write a macro that says as much.

This last point is similar to the fact that I speed Run, on a game pad. [NVIDIA Shield Portable] [PS3] [PS4]
I have a macro that says as much, and suggests to people, that if they think I should, or prefer I slow down, to please ask, and I'm glad to do so.

Honestly, new players can only benefit from reading up on the forums here and there. I don't expect any of them to bother with "General Discussion" but rotations and such are best learned through the forums or reddit. Speaking with the community and learning about the game without having someone hold your hand is every individual player's responsibility.

If I want to be an effective DPS, I'm not going to feel I'm owed an explanation by someone in game. I'm going to go to a forum. Basically, any information that isn't outright explained in the game is something to go to a forum or community page for.

No NPC explains rotations or speedruns. They don't explain the expectations that are upon me as a player in a certain role. Please be proactive in your gaming existence on FFXIV and educate yourself.

You bring up good points, but I don't expect this from new players. I have this expectation from Raiders only. Not everybody is remotely close to caring about optimal rotations. Most people want to do enough DPS to get by. You know what? I'm OK with that.

[Ophie-Mio]

Honestly, new players can only benefit from reading up on the forums here and there. I don't expect any of them to bother with "General Discussion" but rotations and such are best learned through the forums or reddit. Speaking with the community and learning about the game without having someone hold your hand is every individual player's responsibility.

If I want to be an effective DPS, I'm not going to feel I'm owed an explanation by someone in game. I'm going to go to a forum. Basically, any information that isn't outright explained in the game is something to go to a forum or community page for.

No NPC explains rotations or speedruns. They don't explain the expectations that are upon me as a player in a certain role. Please be proactive in your gaming existence on FFXIV and educate yourself.

[Kidblinks]

This should be self-explanatory. You can not expect new and newer player to know what they do not know yet, anymore that you can push a string.

In response to:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...a-dungeon-rant

What you can do is help, teach, and guide new players when you meet them. Be inclusive and make adjustment to accommodate them. Some of them on PS3/4 may not even have a keyboard and can't chat or chat response comes like 2 minutes later.

Well this is a silly response then. The person who made that thread only asked that they make it known that the new players are in the experience for the first time and he'd alter his play style accordingly. Why would someone ask the party if someone was new if it wasn't to teach or guide them? I doubt he'd ask who was new only to then continue on with a speedrun.

[NyarukoW]

... Much like dealing with a person with either a physical or mental handicap, you do not talk to them as though they are handicapped. If they can't keep up or are struggling, then you offer help. Otherwise you run the risk of being patronizing / degrading.....

Serisouly? You really want to go there? Being considerate and accommodating is not being patronizing or degrading. Leave that soccer ball in the hallway to trip up the blind person or walking fast up the stairs with someone on a wheelchair is just outright mean. And btw outright asking people if they are new and demanding that they respond is patronizing and degrading.

.. I doubt he'd ask who was new only to then continue on with a speedrun.

Obviously you can't read. But that is exactly what is assumed. The assumption is wrong that a non-response means it is ok to continue to speed run is wrong. New players may not even know how to use emotes much less have macros in place. I've seen new FC member respond 2 minutes later because they are pecking it out on their PS3/4. You need to be ready and willing to accommodate them, and be in the mindset that you sense their obstacles even before they do.

And one of the obstacle is that they most likely do not know that the forums exist. So the pro tip is for experienced player (pros so to speak) and that you need to be ready to accommodate whatever limitations they have and this should be plain and obvious and self-explanatory. This should be the default position and not expect the new/newer players to have to do anything special.

...Honestly, new players can only benefit from reading up on the forums here and there. ....

I was new at one time and the forums have helped, but it can make do with a lot less new player bashing. And blaming new players for wipes to speedruns because they did not responding is just one more way they are bashing new players. This is not acceptable.

[Osias_Qol]

I 100% agree expecting people to use the forums if they are new to dungeons is silly.

I expect them to use youtube where they can get a visual rundown.
If you have special needs make a pf.

[Ophie-Mio]

Serisouly? You really want to go there? Being considerate and accommodating is not being patronizing or degrading. Leave that soccer ball in the hallway to trip up the blind person or walking fast up the stairs with someone on a wheelchair is just outright mean. And btw outright asking people if they are new and demanding that they respond is patronizing and degrading.

If you bothered to read and understand what he wrote, he was saying that you don't talk down to new people and that you respect them. He's saying that the more they struggle, the more he's willing to assist. He's also saying that if they are silent, you can't do anything to assist them because they essentially won't help you help them. He's asking for them to be decent human beings and when they are spoken to, to respond back with something. You completely missed his point.

He's also saying that people defending them by saying, "Ooooh! But he's on gamepad and he can't communicate." isn't a good enough excuse because he himself has learned how to communicate effectively given his tools.

Misen, I agree with your points, honestly. I can only speak from personal experience and I wanted to know what to do to not be a moron so I checked the forums out and saw what was the norm.

they are bashing new players. This is not acceptable.

They? You mean the "they" that also bash the veteran players about not completely available? The casual and the harcore bash each other all the time. It's not acceptable no matter what.
If I see a new player message in harder content, I'm gonna ask who it is because I need to know who to instruct. If they stand there and don't bother to explain anything and not even bother with a " / " in party chat, then I'm sorry, my patience will naturally start to wear thin. Help me by doing something as simple as answering a question.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

New players may not even know how to use emotes much less have macros in place.

What are you even talking about?

As said in the original thread, we are only speed running 50+ Content. Nobody is discussing Speed running content at level 1. There are MAIN SCENARIO quests at like level 5 that require you to use emotes.

What do you think we are speed running? Satasha Normal Mode?

No! Maybe Brayflox Hard Mode. Sure, you can spend 40 minutes in there, pulling mobs one group at a time. Or you can clear it in 7.5 minutes. (Assuming you also kill the boss)

I don't understand your hatred here.

also, I've stated multiple times, I have a macro that says roughly "Hi! I'll be your tank for this duty. I'm overgeared, so I'm going to speed run unless there are any objections. If you are new, or want to slow down, please speak up, and I have no problem slowing down so you can enjoy the Duty." if you have an objection, you need to speak up. It's Okay to speak up. Most people want to go quickly though. If you don't want to, and we're asking you if you want to slow down, and you say nothing, we're going to assume you are content with the current pace.