Pro tip: Do NOT expect new player to get tips from the forums

[NyarukoW]

... Much like dealing with a person with either a physical or mental handicap, you do not talk to them as though they are handicapped. If they can't keep up or are struggling, then you offer help. Otherwise you run the risk of being patronizing / degrading.....

Serisouly? You really want to go there? Being considerate and accommodating is not being patronizing or degrading. Leave that soccer ball in the hallway to trip up the blind person or walking fast up the stairs with someone on a wheelchair is just outright mean. And btw outright asking people if they are new and demanding that they respond is patronizing and degrading.

.. I doubt he'd ask who was new only to then continue on with a speedrun.

Obviously you can't read. But that is exactly what is assumed. The assumption is wrong that a non-response means it is ok to continue to speed run is wrong. New players may not even know how to use emotes much less have macros in place. I've seen new FC member respond 2 minutes later because they are pecking it out on their PS3/4. You need to be ready and willing to accommodate them, and be in the mindset that you sense their obstacles even before they do.

And one of the obstacle is that they most likely do not know that the forums exist. So the pro tip is for experienced player (pros so to speak) and that you need to be ready to accommodate whatever limitations they have and this should be plain and obvious and self-explanatory. This should be the default position and not expect the new/newer players to have to do anything special.

...Honestly, new players can only benefit from reading up on the forums here and there. ....

I was new at one time and the forums have helped, but it can make do with a lot less new player bashing. And blaming new players for wipes to speedruns because they did not responding is just one more way they are bashing new players. This is not acceptable.

[Ophie-Mio]

Serisouly? You really want to go there? Being considerate and accommodating is not being patronizing or degrading. Leave that soccer ball in the hallway to trip up the blind person or walking fast up the stairs with someone on a wheelchair is just outright mean. And btw outright asking people if they are new and demanding that they respond is patronizing and degrading.

If you bothered to read and understand what he wrote, he was saying that you don't talk down to new people and that you respect them. He's saying that the more they struggle, the more he's willing to assist. He's also saying that if they are silent, you can't do anything to assist them because they essentially won't help you help them. He's asking for them to be decent human beings and when they are spoken to, to respond back with something. You completely missed his point.

He's also saying that people defending them by saying, "Ooooh! But he's on gamepad and he can't communicate." isn't a good enough excuse because he himself has learned how to communicate effectively given his tools.

Misen, I agree with your points, honestly. I can only speak from personal experience and I wanted to know what to do to not be a moron so I checked the forums out and saw what was the norm.

they are bashing new players. This is not acceptable.

They? You mean the "they" that also bash the veteran players about not completely available? The casual and the harcore bash each other all the time. It's not acceptable no matter what.
If I see a new player message in harder content, I'm gonna ask who it is because I need to know who to instruct. If they stand there and don't bother to explain anything and not even bother with a " / " in party chat, then I'm sorry, my patience will naturally start to wear thin. Help me by doing something as simple as answering a question.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

New players may not even know how to use emotes much less have macros in place.

What are you even talking about?

As said in the original thread, we are only speed running 50+ Content. Nobody is discussing Speed running content at level 1. There are MAIN SCENARIO quests at like level 5 that require you to use emotes.

What do you think we are speed running? Satasha Normal Mode?

No! Maybe Brayflox Hard Mode. Sure, you can spend 40 minutes in there, pulling mobs one group at a time. Or you can clear it in 7.5 minutes. (Assuming you also kill the boss)

I don't understand your hatred here.

also, I've stated multiple times, I have a macro that says roughly "Hi! I'll be your tank for this duty. I'm overgeared, so I'm going to speed run unless there are any objections. If you are new, or want to slow down, please speak up, and I have no problem slowing down so you can enjoy the Duty." if you have an objection, you need to speak up. It's Okay to speak up. Most people want to go quickly though. If you don't want to, and we're asking you if you want to slow down, and you say nothing, we're going to assume you are content with the current pace.

[NyarukoW]

...
As said in the original thread, we are only speed running 50+ Content. Nobody is discussing Speed running content at level 1. There are MAIN SCENARIO quests at like level 5 that require you to use emotes. ...

Level 1 or Level 50, it does not matter. People forget they can use emotes. People don't read english, people don't read your macro, etc. etc. You would hope people doing brayflox hm would know a thing or two, but don't be surprised if they are dealing with a speed run for the very first time, or know that speed run is even a concept or a thing.

You need to rephrase your macro to say "I will speed run if everyone agrees to speed run" instead of "there are any objections". This way you do not misintepret the non-response. Putting the onus on the new players is the wrong assumption and leads to wipes in your speedrun.

[Ophie-Mio]

Level 1 or Level 50, it does not matter. People forget they can use emotes. People don't read english, people don't read your macro, etc. etc. You would hope people doing brayflox hm would know a thing or two, but don't be surprised if they are dealing with a speed run for the very first time, or know that speed run is even a concept or a thing.

If people forget to that they can use emotes in this game, then that is something special indeed. For people who run in all languages, yes, that may be a problem but that's a problem you have to deal with when it comes. Everyone basically queues for all languages so eventually you'll have to deal with the issue. That's what auto-translate is for.

If they don't read the macro, then that's their fault.

You need to rephrase your macro to say "I will speed run if everyone agrees to speed run" instead of "there are any objections". This way you do not misintepret the non-response. Putting the onus on the new players is the wrong assumption and leads to wipes in your speedrun.

No. This is literally the same question but demanding even more attention from people who either don't care or don't care to answer.
And he's not putting anything unreasonable upon any player's shoulders. He's literally just asking for a response and if they cannot be bothered to give ANYTHING in return, then they will have to get what they get.

Yes, if you want to speed run content (Special need) start up a party finder.

Except that speedrunning (depending on content) is the primary method of how to run the dungeons. That isn't to say that you won't find someone who wants to go at it leisurely...because even I do it from time to time but it's a general assumption in the current play style of this game that dungeons that are not expert are automatically speedrun and expert dungeons are speedrun when the conditions are correct. You may not like it but this is what the majority do.

And being mean and verbally abusing the new/newer players isn't going to fix or solve the issues either. Because pushing the string harder isn't going to change anything.

Did you know that sometimes when people mess up the newer players can be abusive towards them as well?
I've lost track of how many times friends tried to give advice to dps only to be given nasty words.
My husband was doing Zodiac on tank and was doing WP and had people who were in decent gear and he just went and pulled the first two groups. They were brand new to the dungeon but felt that even new, they could handle two groups. They immediately started to berate him and cuss him out and made fun of him the entire time until the end. Did he deserve that? No. Did he apologize for pulling (OMG) two groups? Yes, he did and did they still berate and cuss him out? Yes.
People need to be better towards each other. New/newer players are not precious little things that can't handle the content as the majority plays it. They'll be fine.

[CGMidlander]

Except that speedrunning (depending on content) is the primary method of how to run the dungeons. That isn't to say that you won't find someone who wants to go at it leisurely...because even I do it from time to time but it's a general assumption in the current play style of this game that dungeons that are not expert are automatically speedrun and expert dungeons are speedrun when the conditions are correct. You may not like it but this is what the majority do.

i.e. de facto vs de jure

[PandaPause]

What are you even talking about?


I don't understand your hatred here.

Arguing with NyarukoW is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours, you realize that he likes it.

[Kidblinks]

Obviously you can't read.

It becomes clear very quickly if someone is new and just unresponsive for whatever reason. You're assuming the experienced player would continue speed rolling through a dungeon as they watch players get mechanics wrong and die/or wipe the party. I've been in parties where I asked if people needed explanations and no one responded only to end in a wipe. And in this case you explain the dungeon mechanics anyway. What player is just going to continue to allow the party wipe over and over again just because party mates aren't responding? Let's use common sense here, please.

[LunaHoshino]

I've been in parties where I asked if people needed explanations and no one responded only to end in a wipe. And in this case you explain the dungeon mechanics anyway. What player is just going to continue to allow the party wipe over and over again just because party mates aren't responding? Let's use common sense here, please.

Exactly. It benefits no one to not respond if someone asks if anyone needs any explanations. Much better that you take the 20 seconds to have someone explain mechanics before a fight than to just go into the fight, wipe, and then end up getting the same explanation anyway.