Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[SpiritMuse]

You're welcome~

I'm honestly expecting the nit pick. It's a nice exercise in patience, arguing with a stubborn brick wall, heh..

Thanks for the in-depth reply. As should be obvious, I'm new to the forums as well as the game so I don't know all this history. From where I'm standing it looked mostly like one person just very sure of their opinions and not always the best at expressing things with nuance. Some people are like that, they suck at expressing nuance so it looks like they're thinking in black and white even though they actually don't. Usually those people will explain though and adjust their words if asked.

Being a White Knight is fine. It's when you fashion yourself judge, jury, and executioner that it becomes a problem. Though on the other hand, I can also understand if someone becomes completely fed up with all the jerks and loses patience. ^^

[Ghishlain]

Thanks for the in-depth reply. As should be obvious, I'm new to the forums as well as the game so I don't know all this history. From where I'm standing it looked mostly like one person just very sure of their opinions and not always the best at expressing things with nuance. Some people are like that, they suck at expressing nuance so it looks like they're thinking in black and white even though they actually don't. Usually those people will explain though and adjust their words if asked.

Being a White Knight is fine. It's when you fashion yourself judge, jury, and executioner that it becomes a problem. Though on the other hand, I can also understand if someone becomes completely fed up with all the jerks and loses patience. ^^

Hope you enjoy your stay here Take things with a grain of salt when ya can, some posters are a bit sharp but they mean well and are just a bit impatient with their responses (as you already know, based on your post~)

Happy hunting and adventuring!

[Viridiana]

The primary role of the healer is to keep the party alive.

You heard it here, folks! The tank is not part of the party!

[Anesjka]

No, I am not psychic. No, I don't assume that because you're poorly geared that you are new. No, the message at the beginning does not tell me that there are multiple new people.

Yes, you should have responded when I asked in the beginning who's new.

If you do not tell me you're new; expect a speed run and understand that I expect you to understand the dungeon.

Now, tell me that you're new and I will ALWAYS pull slowly and I'll make sure you don't get lost.

If you haven't learned by now, people have been starting to be mum on if they are new because people have been vote kicking them.
Either learn to deal with new players ( which is a GREAT thing for a game )

..or stop running every dungeon

[NyarukoW]

You heard it here, folks! The tank is not part of the party!

The speed runner needs to be dialed down so they can be part of the party, and not the instigator of the wipes.

[Nova_Rox]

Better you than me. I bowed out ten pages ago, but have been reading and shaking my head this entire time.

And /popcorn. Lots of /popcorn.

Yeah...same here. It's people picking one part to quote and ignoring the rest.

Or not reading at all

[NyarukoW]

There are a couple of other times in the past where NyarukoW has badly generalized people:

• All raiders are non-inclusive elitest jerks
• All raid clear sellers are RMTs
• All early pulls in hunts occur because the person making the early pull is a troll (and may have not accidentally face pulled by not paying attention)
• All people who withdraw from DF queues are abusive DF fishers (and may not have an actual real life emergency come up)

You have chosen to deliberately misinterpret and make into false generalizations. I have known some helpful raiders, but fact remains when people post asking for groups to join they are met with silence or useless directions to wild goose chases instead of straight offers for tryouts to joint their groups.

I also cleared stated on multiple occasions that the connection between clear sellers and RMTs are murky because we lack the information, but you would have to be naive to deny that they absolutely have zero connection. It is a far cry form saying all clear sellers are RMTs, but the actions of clear sellers invariablely directly or indirectly intentional or otherwise help motivate RMT. This you can not deny because people need gil to buy clears and RMTs need a demand for gil.

Accidental early pulls happen, the process by which people identify the early puller require careful observation. But it because increasing obvious when it is same troll griefing others at the hunts. This is a simple signal to noise problems. All it takes is time put in to identify them and no jump to conclusions. And it have been done successfully on more than one occasion to get the corpse of the early puller to be dropped on the ground. All it takes is coordination on the LSes and shouts in the zone to hold fire and the let the A rank kill the fool and not res them.

People can withdraw on PF, but the repeated withdraws in the era before the penalty was clearly a product of DF fishers. In the time since the penalty has been put in place the the withdraws have dropped dramatically. You don't encounter 15 withdraws in 5 minutes just to get into CT, ST or WoD or any other instance for that matter. This is indisputable fact. It you who choose misinterpret such simple fact as the withdraws are all abusive fishers, when in fact it only takes a handful of abusive fishers to cause constant withdraws for everyone else.

Similarly you choose to misinterpret the scenarios. Nut lets go thru them.

Example #1
Tank
DPS
DPS
Healer (NyarukoW)

Both DPS says they don't want a speed run, Tank ignores and goes into a mass pull anyway. NyarukoW lets the tank die via tactics listed in this post, run calms down, normal pulls made, everyone is happy.

Except the speed runner is not happy but he will get thru this and not at a bad pace either just not full speed run speed, but it will prevent party wipes and people will clear and often I get 2 commendations in this case.

Example #2
Tank (NyarukoW)
DPS
DPS
Healer

....
If the healer and the silent DPS were in the "I don't care either way" or "yes" camp, they would engage the new mobs / heal the DPS taking damage. NyarukoW would not pick up any of the mobs and just let the three deal with it themselves, thinking that all silent members are an automatic "no" vote.

The aggro will go with the speed running DPS that pulled them. The healer and the other DPS can do what they want but if the party wipes because of the responsibility clearly falls on the speed running DPS. The tank is not obligated to grab the stuff. If the healer is the speed runner that pulls, then it forces my hand where I will have to grab aggro and then I will die first and the aggro will go invariably to the healer and party wipes. There is a limit to what how many hits a tank can take, and I don't grab what I can not handle. This happened quite often when I was learning to tank when I had level synced DPS or healer too impatient and went off and grabbed stuff and invariably wiped the party. They even vote kicked me only to get me back joined in progress and reporting them to the GM for vote kick abuse and harassment. I've not seen this recent months in expert roulette because it seems the healers are more sane and the dps that pull stuff are left to die on their own. And it is obvious when speed runners try to abuse the tanks, and healers usually got the tanks back when the tank is not the speed runner.

Example #3
Tank
DPS (NyarukoW)
DPS
Healer

....
New player bonus pops up.

Tank asks if speedrun is okay. Healer and DPS both stay silent but are already part of the "yes" camp from previous (and private) discussion. NyarukoW gives the "I can do either" response.

Tank runs off, begins a large pull. NyarukoW, following their guide line of "Doing no DPS to protest a speed run to help the new player", does literally that, making no effort to help burn the pack down.

Looks as I've state before. If the everyone else in group is happy to speed run, I am not going to disrupt the speed run for giggles. I do not have infinite time either to waste making problems. Sure in this case I can't tell if the new/newer player is really ok to speed run or not, but if the tank and healer are obviously handling it fine and new player seems to going with flow of things just fine, while I may not do the max DPS but it will certainly be more than adequate and I don't have to worry about a thing. What would be there to protest about? It is not like I can not observe the situation.

However if the new player is having trouble and it would also be obvious to see that, I'd first tell the tank to slow down, and if the tank refuses and they don't say any while refusing then I will withold DPS so they have to slow down. This is not harassment in way. This is doing my best to help the group work better. It doesn't matter if they are friends and/or from the same FC because if their friend is being lost, getting clobbered, etc. They are overwhelming their friend. Heaven forbid their friend is the healer because there it no saving the wipe when the healer is overwhelmed.

[Irving]

You have chosen to deliberately misinterpret and make into false generalizations.

Nah. He pretty much nailed it on the head. Its pretty hard to be like you after all.

[Ghishlain]

You have chosen to deliberately misinterpret and make into false generalizations.

Sorry, as much as you'd like to think that I am like you, I am not.

Please, try again.

[Kaze3434]

You have chosen to deliberately misinterpret and make into false generalizations.

kind of like the vast majority of you posting history. also, ghishlain use things you have said in other posts, so not sure how its false.