3 Star token rotation help

[Gillionaire]

I gave you a hint, that should be more than enough if you want to improve.

Ehhh you're probably just trolling.. But either way.
Only CP wasted is the Observed and cutting SH2 short by 1 hasty touch, thus using SH2 before the finisher to incorporate the HT etc. etc.

But if you know how to actually read rotations, that's not a rigid rotation suggested, and SH2 only has 4 hasties below to suggest room for ToTT, if you can get down to 20 CP before SH2 runs out, you could switch to SH instead etc..

Observe... well Observe.. can't fix that with the cross class limitations..

If you know how to read rotations, you'd be able to visualize it into a general boolean guide.

[ZephyrZ]

Ehhh you're probably just trolling.. But either way.
Only CP wasted is the Observed and cutting SH2 short by 1 hasty touch, thus using SH2 before the finisher to incorporate the HT etc. etc.

But if you know how to actually read rotations, that's not a rigid rotation suggested, and SH2 only has 4 hasties below to suggest room for ToTT, if you can get down to 20 CP before SH2 runs out, you could switch to SH instead etc..

Observe... well Observe.. can't fix that with the cross class limitations..

If you know how to read rotations, you'd be able to visualize it into a general boolean guide.

I'll be nice and give you guys one more hint, he has a total of 75 cp wasted in the his standard rotation, regardless of being a boolean guide or not.

Sad that SE is focusing on casual crafters in 3.0 rather than dedicated crafters that invest time and money into getting a good rotation down, rather than looking for hand me outs.

[Gillionaire]

I'll be nice and give you guys one more hint, he has a total of 75 cp wasted in the his standard rotation, regardless of being a boolean guide or not.

Sad that SE is focusing on casual crafters in 3.0 rather than dedicated crafters that invest time and money into getting a good rotation down, rather than looking for hand me outs.

Let me guess,

Replace PbP with Rapid Synth, 30CP
2 Observes, 28 CP.
Add another CZ, 14 CP.
Swap SH2 with SH for Byregot's finisher, 3CP.

Total 75CP?

I don't think that rotation's possible as a fresh 3 star crafter though..


But keep going, I like this game.. and who knows what I might learn from it.

[Wisdombeer]

snip

RS cannot replace PBP for all gear situation. The first PBP is 240 points. In comparison, a RS under Ingen II is like 150 to 190 depending of your craftmanship. And I dont see why you would wait Lucis to get Master book II. So it's more likely 160 than 180. The second PBP is questionable, it's around 170 points worth.

2 Observes, 28 CP, please tell me what skill to bait. That's something I'd like to improve.

I often place a third CZ. But hard to make it appear in a rotation as the cast is highly TOTT dependent.

The 3 CP of SH instead of SH2... hmm... you often want to add a HT under the last SH. Which mean you'll want a SH2 for 10 additional percents.

Ho and Zephyr, you should read the main entry of my guide. These rotations are not for accomplished crafters but more a "jump-in". What you propose is mostly situation-dependent, so it's pretty hard to write it correctly in a guide. But I'll consider these.

[Gillionaire]

snip

Oh I'm aware, I was just trying to come up with the 75 cp figure which could be considered "superfluous" and yes, that only works for high craftsmanship plus the RS are 80% and not 90% like PbP.

[Wisdombeer]

My message was in fact adressed to Zephyr, even if the quote is from your post (you do provide concrete informations while Zephyr apparently loves trolling).

The fact that PBP is 90% let also use it out of a SH2. To be faire, the price of PBP should be reduced by around 1/4 of the SH2 cost. I would count more 10 CP if the second PBP is replaced by a RS.

What I'd like to get from Zephyr is an optimization of my rotation that is working (because the 75 CP is just fancy trolling, you wont get them all at once), that do only require 4 TOTT (-80 CP at the end), and that conserve the 2 baits which are essential to get a Good condition on materials. I'll try to find a solution when I have a bit of time. But I must invest more the replacement of the second PBP by a RS under 400-420 craftmanship. I dont even think it's working or worth it.

[ZephyrZ]

Snip

Apparently there is a 3 post per day limit for me I very very very nearly bit, i wrote out a whole detailed explanation but i chose not to post it . I'll drop more hints since we're playing a game ^^


Let's look at what we know.
1) That's a 3 star rotation for an item with 801 difficulty, 8964 quality and 80 durability
2) Before being able to do 3 star, you require Artisan Main hand, FULLY melded AF set, and only +3cp melded onto the militia offhand to hit. 394 craftsmanship, 378control and 398 cp with food.

Now and here is the funny part. I went back to my old 3 star gear and tried the rotation as a "new/fresh" 3 star crafter would and i came up short, couldn't complete the synth. 2x PbP, ING2 + 2x RS and CSII wasn't enough progress to complete the synth.

But objectively looking at the rotation: the 2x pBp and 2x RS is very standard at only the cost of a SHII. The Observes are well, wasted steps and wasted cp since there are "other" methods of baiting out a condition. Anyone attempting this craft has Melded AF gear + artisan MH + at least unmelded Artisan OH. 426 craftsmanship, 395 control, 398 CP. So i don't understand why the rotation assumes a low of 388 cp when cp is easy + cheap to meld and should be prioritized over anything. I didn't even think about the additional CZ but that would add more CP Also, i mistyped. It is 73, not 75 and yet think of what you can do with an additional 73 + 14 CP in that rotation. When i see a rotation that almost wastes 100 CP, i just have to shake my head a little, granted i might not have done it in the most polite manner but i do know what i'm talking about and am trying to help ^^

One last thought, but there are other cross last skills that can and should be utilized, so why not use Basic Syntheses under SHI or SHII over CSII, just a thought about working it in, if you do it right you still get 2 bait opportunities for the right condition.

Snip

Once you're at 3 star stats, there is no "jump-in" crafters, you either know what you're doing or you don't. The above rotation shows me that you don't, i didn't want to say it outright but you got all defensive and hostile, i guess your name suits you. I don't give hand outs, this isn't a game where crafters collaborate, they compete but i don't mind helping out ^^ so you can take the hints i gave you and try and figure it out for yourself or brush me off as a troll; your call.

[Wisdombeer]

Once you're at 3 star stats, there is no "jump-in" crafters

The OP apparently says the contrary.

this isn't a game where crafters collaborate, they compete but i don't mind helping out

Well, then we are of the same kind. I'm trying to help, nothing more. And I do consider your hints seriously.

As you said, you did not answered with a very polite manner. Dont be surprised if you got "defensive and hostile" answers.

[Gillionaire]

snip

I've fiddled with your rotation a little bit more.. and I think you can bait twice with 18 CP without using Observe. But you do end up losing 10 durability.
It goes like this.


CZ -> IQ -> SH2 -> PbP -> PbP -> RS -> RS -> then onto the quality work.
You save 32 CP here and a cross class slot from not needing Ingen 2. If you fail, or more than 1 ToTT pops, you could always push the RS over to next SH2 so it's pretty flexible.

Then the finisher.
SH -> GS -> Innov -> CS2 -> Byregots -> CS2.

You do end up using 10 more dura for synthesis step but considering the 32 CP you save from not using Ingen 2 and 14 less CP for 2 baits.. 46 CP has to be more than enough to cover 10 durability loss.

It does look like you need around 420 Craftsmanship.. which would depend on whether you're doing the manual before or AFTER your supra.. I don't like to invest in my off hands before Supra.. But I guess it could work for some people Craftsmanship req can be lowered to about 400 by using 1 standard synthesis for 15 CP under SH as a finisher..


If I'd thought about the rotation I just mentioned before getting all my books, I think I would've certainly used it, but for a guide, it makes things way more complicated.. I have mixed feelings about it.

[Wisdombeer]

This is not more complex to show in a guide than the one I did put in it.
What you propose is really close to the 4* rotation I put in the guide for 453+ craftmanship. I'll try this in real situation soon, I still have GSM, ARM and ALC books to do (I was not in a hurry since I almost dont craft any 4* to sell but needed artisan and foragers).

I do have GSM artisan tool but do not have ALC artisan tool. So I'll be able to test with around 440 craftmanship and < 420. Need to find what is the minimum value.