Thread: Specialist System in 3.0

So much contradiction. Let's slow down the crafters by adding content that requires them to level all the classes. Oh no, they're too hardcore now, let's force them to only focus on one crafting class (even though you'll likely have to be 60 for further cross-class skills).

Gatherers sound like they may be done correctly, depending on how the "talisman" system works out. Temporary focus through the use of consumable buffs. Possibly allowing them to change if different talismans are collected.

Currently, it looks like either creating alts to take advantage of all crafting will have to offer, or just stop crafting.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...29-Translation

Introducing "Scrips" for Crafters and Gatherers?

Please tell us about the new specialization elements for crafting.
Y: Well first I'd like to talk about some of the basic policies for crafter and gatherer updates as we move towards Heavensward.

Go on.
Y: FFXIV has adopted the Armoury system which is quite different from other MMORPGs in that it allows one player to be anything. However, for crafters up until patch 2.5, rather than the system allowing you to be any of them, to a large extent for more hardcore crafters it required you to be all of them. If you worked on it steadily over time, it wasn't too challenging to grow each crafting class to level 50; however, since it's an MMORPG, we thought that we should slow some things down. However, as we started adding in higher difficulty recipes, such as the ones that require special books to learn, it got to an extreme situation where you had to have full equipment and everything leveled up. So while this was rewarding economincally, we recognizes that it was a tough situation for players who just wanted to have some fun while making products to sell. So we want to go back to the original plan that it's something to do at your own pace, so that's the policy at the heart of our updates with specialists.

What about for gatherers?
Y: Although there won't be a specialist system for gathering, the advantages and disadvantages of gatherer are related to the maximum number of items you can collect, so everyone would go after the same items creating a surplus. As a result, it gets to a point where it's difficult to gather any items that crafters can use to make items useful for battle content. To increase the value of crafted items and implement the a system for materia, we need to create some differences between individual gatherers. We don't want gil alone to be able to create a strong player, but it's also not good for balance if only battle content drops are the strongest, so we want to work on adjusting this balance gradually.

Makes sense.
Y: For people that put a lot of time into it, one of the goals of Heavensward and later the patch 3.X series is that they will have a greater economic contribution. One of the new systems is the concept of Specialsts for crafter classes. Like before, it will still be possible to develop all of the crafter classes without limit to level 60. After you finish training, you'll be able to choose a profession to qualify as a Specialist which may provide a special action or special recipes. It will also be possible to choose multiple specializations.

Will you be able to switch Specialist qualifications?
Y: You will be able to switch but it will take some time.

It sounds like things will be shaken up quite a bit for crafters and gatherers.
Y: We want to narrow down people's focus so that rather than wanting to do everything, they instead want to focus on really working on refining just one class. In Heavensward, we'll also be implementing a mechanism like Allagan Tomestones for crafters and gatherers in addition to battle classes, so that you'll have another way to acquiare new equipment and collect items.

Will it have a name like... Allagan Tomestone of Farming?
Y: This is tentative, but we're calling the crafter currency "red coins" and "blue coins." Unlike retainer venture tokens, these aren't actual items, but rather they will be stored in counters like Allagan Tomestones. Right now, the only way to get the best parameters to try the toughest recipes and gathering points is through forbidden materia melding. For those who are aiming for the top, we'll leave the fastest route to be the same as it is now, but we'll have a second option for those players who keep coming back each day with this scrip system to create a variety of ways to specialize crafters and gatherers.

How will you obtain the new currency?
Y: There will be content implemented in Heavensward which makes non-HQ items useful for something. The currency will be collected through a new concept called "collection goods."

What kind of useful non-HQ items will you be adding for gatherers?
Y: For gatherers, we'll focus on the lore for each region to allow for a rare item to be collected in a certain area out in the field. It'll be tough to find the items if you don't know the lore.

I imagine the new currency will be involved in acquiring the lore?
Y: Yes. There will also be a "talisman" system that we'll be adding. By using the talisman, hidden gathering nodes will show up. This is one of the things we'll use to specialize gatherers, as there will be different talismans for each region, which will increase the individual differences between each gatherer.

In the past you've used these for teleportation, will it be an item like that?
Y: If you use the talisman, a special buff will be given which will allow you to find special gathering nodes as long as the effect is active, it will be something like that.

So you expect that different players will be collecting a variety of rare items from different locations.
Y: We want to expand the variety of gathered items horizontally while leaving the apex in the same place that you can get to over time. As a result, we think there will be more value in items that both gatherers and crafters can produce. We'll be implementing these systems with Heavensward and we'll work throughout the patch 3.X series to achieve balance.

Will company crafting be related to these new systems?
Y: It's likely that materials you'll need, such as for airships, will be items obtained from locations like those.

Originally Posted by Sibyll

I'm not saying MCDs were implemented in the best way possible, but saying that only GSMs could get MCDs is fallacy.

Also you argument makes no sense either way because most people had GSM as a desynth because of the stigma that it was the easiest to get MCDs with. Yet MCDs were still millions of gil even though there was a surplus of GSM desynthers. So no, it had less to do with the specialization and more to do with people not wanting to spend the time to craft and desynth the MCDs themselves.

No, most people have GSM desynth now. How would it initially have been the case? It took a lot of time/money to level desynth, and at first what desynthed into what wasnt well known. Point is, because of the inbalanceds and limitations of the desynth system some could make a lot of gil, whereas others could not make any gil at all.
The reason why prices are lower are now are because of a: supply increased because people started (re)rolling GSM desynth.
and b) because it became a lot cheaper (even for GSM) to mass produce MDs.


If the specialization system turns out to be similar, then you will very likely see something similar happening.
Except worse, because you wont be able to just go and pick up another spec like you can with (a second or third, or even a reroll) desynth. You'll be stuck with your (crappy?) spec. Ah, but you might be able to change it every month; like GC.


The bolded part is completely besides the point. It's about the fact that de inbalances created an enormous advantage between anyone that had the desynth, and anyone that didnt. There is no fallacy here, as that is not the point. (otherwise yes, it would be)
As such, it's still a valid example.

You're just arguing on technicality.. Is it a fallacy to say that only WHM/BRD/BLM have AOEs? sure is.. But do YOU wanna go in an aoe party with monks, ninjas, and Dragoons?

We're not only talking about capability, but viability matters a lot. Especially on something with a hard numerical figures like MB. When someone can create the same goods you can with half the cost, and the system is inherently lacking of overhead or any physical distinctions (i.e. good storefront location, aesthetics of the store, customer service, etc.) We ALL share the same store, which is the MB) You will not be able to compete.

The only thing that distinguishes one seller from another is the retainer name and the name stamp on the item depending on what it is.. Those two things are very little motivation for a buyer to consider, it's Price Price Price..

Originally Posted by Gillionaire

You're just arguing on technicality.. Is it a fallacy to say that only WHM/BRD/BLM have AOEs? sure is.. But do YOU wanna go in an aoe party with monks, ninjas, and Dragoons?

We're not only talking about capability, but viability matters a lot. Especially on something with a hard numerical figures like MB. When someone can create the same goods you can with half the cost, and the system is inherently lacking of overhead or any physical distinctions (i.e. good storefront location, aesthetics of the store, customer service, etc.) We ALL share the same store, which is the MB) You will not be able to compete.

The only thing that distinguishes one seller from another is the retainer name and the name stamp on the item depending on what it is.. Those two things are very little motivation for a buyer to consider, it's Price Price Price..

You assume that everyone crafts just to make gil and play the market board. No matter what changes they make, people with too much time on their hands will level alts so they can get an upperhand. Also, for someone that doesn't play the market board and doesn't care about making gil, why would I care what these people are doing?

I actually do think that raid-like lock outs and tome progression on crafter gear would even the playing field between casual crafters and hard core crafters, seeing as you love drawing comparisons with DoW/DoM end game content.