Thread: Specialist System in 3.0

Originally Posted by Sibyll

snip

First off the current system let you specialize if you CHOOSE to. It doesn\\'t twist your arm into doing so. Hell there are ppl that only did Ltw/Wvr/Gsm just fore spiritbonding purposes. So you could always specialize in a craft or two. Why limit the people that worked hard to get them all leveled to please some lazy people that didn\\'t or won\\'t put in the effort to do them all?

In the Reddit posted interview he said there will be a "delay" when you switch specializations. That tells me I can make everything or anything people ask me on the spot. I can only speak for myself but that not good for business. Do I tell this customer in front of me "Sorry I can\\'t make that right now but if you wait I can switch and make it for you then." 10 times out of 10 they are going to find someone else.

Also they could made crafting item more relevant with the current system. It may actually be better because the prices wouldn't be as high if (wait for it) any and everybody can make said items and not just a select few. Base on the info we have its a step back and more monopolies in markets on the horizon.

Originally Posted by Ranzan

First off the current system let you specialize if you CHOOSE to. It doesn\\'t twist your arm into doing so.

Make a 4* BSM without leveling any of the other crafters then come back and tell me that the game doesn't twist your arm to level everything to 50. DoW/DoM does this to an extent too, but at least there you only need to do two other classes and generally to level 34, tops.

Originally Posted by Gillionaire

Can you imagine how hiked up the prices will get if certain items were only crafted/desynthed via a SINGLE method?
Just think back before 2.45 when you had to desynth artisan's specs to get mcDs.. They were over a million gil each! As soon as they released artisan tools and it allowed 3 desynthing classes to obtain them, to a varying degree of effectiveness, it dropped the prices.

Other desynthers always had the option to acquire MCDs, it was merely higher risk for potentially higher reward. So no, this is completely false. They were expensive because it was/is a tedious task no one wants to do, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Gillionaire

Competition will create a healthy market. By forcing people to specialize, that reduces the competition.. Prices will only go up from that.

If specialization draws more people into crafting by making it feasible to level 1 or 2 crafters to 50 without requiring the player to level the all of them then this would create a larger pool of specialized crafters and increase competition overall. We can cherry pick scenarios all day and we will still get no where, which is the point I was trying to make to you earlier in the thread. Wait for more details before you cry a river. It's anecdotal but a common complaint of non-crafters that want to get into crafting is that they don't want to level 8 crafting classes to 50 just to push 1 crafting class to 4*.

Originally Posted by Sibyll

Other desynthers always had the option to acquire MCDs, it was merely higher risk for potentially higher reward. So no, this is completely false. They were expensive because it was/is a tedious task no one wants to do, plain and simple.

Out of what could they obtain MDs exactly?

Originally Posted by Sibyll

If specialization draws more people into crafting by making it feasible to level 1 or 2 crafters to 50 without requiring the player to level the all of them then this would create a larger pool of specialized crafters and increase competition overall.

I already know people who do just that.
What makes you think that people who are too lazy to do so now, (they would much rather have their fc/friend craft for them; then level themselves, or get it off the mb) would suddenly decided to take up crafting?

Originally Posted by Sibyll

It's anecdotal but a common complaint of non-crafters that want to get into crafting is that they don't want to level 8 crafting classes to 50 just to push 1 crafting class to 4*.

No, it's not anecdotal, it's just one random opinion from a random person. Like mine:
I wanted to level 2 classes to 4* and I did not mind leveling all the others to level 50.

Originally Posted by Aeyis

Out of what could they obtain MDs exactly?

Artisan main hands. Forager Hats and Main hands. My memory is hazy but I'm pretty sure all of this came together in the same patch as Artisan Specs. Only reason that people went the GSM route was because you could do 5 Specs in the amount of effort it would take to make any single artisan tool and with the amount of RNG it'd be more beneficial to try 5 times for a chance at 1 then try 1 time at a chance for 1-3 with no knowledge of hard drop rates.

I won't argue that MCDs were balanced well in terms of how different classes obtained them, but there were more options available than only GSM.

Originally Posted by Aeyis

snip

Armorers could desynth Frying pans and Alembics actually. So yea I guess if you took LTW, CUL and ALC as your desynths then you were just out of luck. I'm not saying MCDs were implemented in the best way possible, but saying that only GSMs could get MCDs is fallacy.

Also you argument makes no sense either way because most people had GSM as a desynth because of the stigma that it was the easiest to get MCDs with. Yet MCDs were still millions of gil even though there was a surplus of GSM desynthers. So no, it had less to do with the specialization and more to do with people not wanting to spend the time to craft and desynth the MCDs themselves.

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

If we wanted to go beyond the MCD, GSM was also master for getting grade I and II FC and BC, as well as BCIII demimateria for a while now. Heck, they even allowed GSM to get access to the trio primal's demimateria since they made the accessories desynable, effectively taking away ALC's former advantage of being the only one capable of getting crags.

Desyn in general was pretty messed up from the moment it was implemented, and it hasn't really changed for the better. Now LTW/WVR are the ideal to go for FCIII, GSM still remains the most efficent way since now it only takes 8 turn ins for the artisan needle (which can possibly yield 3 MCD).

Circumstances and scenarios like this needs to be avoided if they plan to make it limited access for each player; SE has a pretty bad habit of letting things go and not fixing it up.

Not saying it was handled in the best way, but it's not the same as saying that those particular desynths were incapable of getting MCDs, with the exception of LTW and ALC. I'm not even including CUL because it is its own beast.

Just some side comments, Titan HM is very farmable in DF. I can't say the same for Titan EX. Also at this point the Demimateria are irrelevant because the EX drops (Inferno horn, Crag Heart etc.) and the Battlecraft IIIs are the limiter at this point for making the primal weapons. The demis have tanked in price.

Lastly, GSM has been on the top of crafting since the beginning. Accessories are the only relevant combat gear. Weapons have always been glamours at best. Armor is generally irrelevant a few weeks after the patch because of tome gear and raid drops.

I'd welcome any changes that will fix the lopsidedness of the usefulness of the different crafting classes.

Originally Posted by Sibyll

I'm not saying MCDs were implemented in the best way possible, but saying that only GSMs could get MCDs is fallacy.

Also you argument makes no sense either way because most people had GSM as a desynth because of the stigma that it was the easiest to get MCDs with. Yet MCDs were still millions of gil even though there was a surplus of GSM desynthers. So no, it had less to do with the specialization and more to do with people not wanting to spend the time to craft and desynth the MCDs themselves.

No, most people have GSM desynth now. How would it initially have been the case? It took a lot of time/money to level desynth, and at first what desynthed into what wasnt well known. Point is, because of the inbalanceds and limitations of the desynth system some could make a lot of gil, whereas others could not make any gil at all.
The reason why prices are lower are now are because of a: supply increased because people started (re)rolling GSM desynth.
and b) because it became a lot cheaper (even for GSM) to mass produce MDs.


If the specialization system turns out to be similar, then you will very likely see something similar happening.
Except worse, because you wont be able to just go and pick up another spec like you can with (a second or third, or even a reroll) desynth. You'll be stuck with your (crappy?) spec. Ah, but you might be able to change it every month; like GC.


The bolded part is completely besides the point. It's about the fact that de inbalances created an enormous advantage between anyone that had the desynth, and anyone that didnt. There is no fallacy here, as that is not the point. (otherwise yes, it would be)
As such, it's still a valid example.