I just had an interesting idea of how Relic weapons should be upgraded

[thunderbreak]

Let the relic scale with average item level of that class. But cap it at certain ilv. To unlock the next tier you have to beat the new primal of whatever the new patch is.

For example at 2.0 defeating the trio and using 3 mist would have gotten you the ilv90 relic. It was the ilv cap then. When Leviathan came out, to unlock your relic to be ilv 110 you need to beat Levi EX, and have an average ilv of 110. Because of average ilv, your weapon will never be ilv 115, which is what raid weapon should be.

I think this will satisfy both the grind aspect and the challenge aspect.

[Chihaya]

Or more like removing the grind AND challenge aspects...

Raid weapon from t5 was originally i90 like zenith... but the devs saw and commented how easy it was to get zenith and it no longer holds much value.

The quick fix was raising t5 weapons to i95.

But now with the grind in place relic can be on the same footing as raid weapons - although a patch late.

Yes the grind is horrible - but you are getting a top raid tier weapon for it.

[thunderbreak]

I'm sorry, I read your post 6 times, and I still have no idea what you are trying to say.

[Ashkendor]

The relic is supposed to be the option for the players that doesn't necessarily do endgame content. Plenty of us do, but there's a reason that they didn't include EX primals in the quest. It's already gated behind enough stuff as it is without putting something like that into the mix. Honestly, I don't see the point of keeping the relic permanently lower tier than the raid weapons. They're not just used by casuals; it's a great option for those people that are still progressing through FCoB or those poor souls RNGesus has seen fit to crap all over when it comes to getting the drops that they need. The people that get through the last raid early on get to have their max level weapons, and then the rest of us play catch up. It's the same as anything else.

[thunderbreak]

Ok, maybe I'm not being clear.

First of all, I'm not suggesting this to be added to the current grind system, I'm suggesting replacing it.

Second of all, are you guys saying yay or neh to the idea of making relic more reasonable to obtain and less grinding like 2.0? Because one of you is telling me why coil 1 weapon is ilv95, and the other is tell me it's stupid that the relic is only ilv 90. Make the raid weapon and relic the same ilv, I can care less about what the damn ilv is. This topic is about the method of obtaining it.

[Chihaya]

Dev made the original Zenith too easy to obtain and regretted it - everyone can get it easily and therefore it had no special value to it.
It is why they added in the grind and decided to increase Allagan weapon stats to make it better than Zenith because it was just too easy to get.

Saying NO to your proposal - as it is more like just handing the relic to you and very well end up like Zenith where it really means nothing to own a legendary zodiac weapon.

[Craiger]

I don't fully understand what you mean, but it sounds pretty bad IMO...

I understand some people hate the grind, but not everyone does. I'm sure if you asked people, majority would want the grind to be shorter... but at the same time, if they made it shorter, more people would complain about not having enough to do in the game or something. Relic grinds isn't as hated as you think.

I would hate for them to remove the grind, that would remove the whole fun aspect of getting it before other people.

Also, having to get to a certain ilvl? really? I'm ilvl 126, and I can increase that to 130 if I want... It's just that for the items I have right now, I get more DPS with these lower ilvl items. I could replace some with more crafted items too, which would lower it even more... ilvl means nothing

One thing I will say though, I think the final turn raid weapons should be increased by 5 ilvls, and should have the best possible stats for that job... Cause you don't need a better weapon to beat the last turn of the raid, and it gives more incentive to actually get that weapon.

[aisustrong]

Also, having to get to a certain ilvl? really? I'm ilvl 126, and I can increase that to 130 if I want... It's just that for the items I have right now, I get more DPS with these lower ilvl items. I could replace some with more crafted items too, which would lower it even more... ilvl means nothing

this. pentamelded 110 is bis pretty often, especially for war
plus it looks better than ironworks jewelry, except maybe the rings

[thunderbreak]

Also, having to get to a certain ilvl? really? I'm ilvl 126, and I can increase that to 130 if I want... It's just that for the items I have right now, I get more DPS with these lower ilvl items. I could replace some with more crafted items too, which would lower it even more... ilvl means nothing

iLv is the condition of UNLOCKING, like unlocking anything in any game, once it's unlocked you can go in to final coil in your underwear if you wanted.

[Jamein]

Lets just forget the grind or the end game content and just give relic weapons to everyone at level 50!

/sarcasm

We have a system that caters to the hardcore raiders, and a system that caters to the more casual players that is just a time sink, not a skill based system. For those saying relic is too much of a grind, sure it is when you look at it from start to finish, but doing it between patches isn't so bad and they even nerfed the steps now if you want to catch up.

Now as for that grind being fun, yeah I agree, that needs to be changed. I don't ever want to see Garuda again. Relics or high end weapons are not MEANT to be easy, they require time and effort, if you haven't got the time then sadly you will be left with a primal/old coil weapon but that's because you're going through content slower as you have less time. If you don't want to make the effort, well then that's your choice.

Also the guy above hits the nail on the head with the ilvl system you wanted to propose.

tl;dr relic needs to be a grind, the grind just needs to be more fun.