Primals, and their nature?

[Nalien]

Midgarsormr's job was to guard the lake and the fount of aether within. Either his duty prevented him from intervening or he straight up didn't care about his great great great great great great grandchildren, or he was sleeping. Dragons like sleep.

His duty didn't prevent him dealing with the Agrius. He literally crashed that ship into the very thing he was meant to be protecting, too... If he was just napping then he has lost every right to lecture me on anything.

I much prefer the idea that he came after Allag, to protect Crystal Towers resting place and prevent it ever being misused again. Garlemald create Bozja Citadel, which was effectively a copy of Crystal Tower, and then attempt to set up shop in Mor Dhona so he deals with them. His seven sons similarly protect Allag relics, resulting in the Dragonsong War with Nidhogg and Ishgard, Midgardsormr now joining the rising chorus as Ishgard is about to make a second mistake.

[Eloah]

(I'm on a tablet so I can't quote everyones post, at least not yet anyway.)

In regards to the OP, you indicated that most primals were "entities" that were worshipped but didn't actually exist until their summonings gave them physical form. But that with the additions of Mog and Shiva that that way of thinking was called into question; whether by you I'm not sure. However, the inclusion of Mog and Shiva actually supports that line of thinking. The only difference is, the worshipping of Mog and Shiva is based on individuals that were known to exist, while all of the other primals backstories are more vague.

As for Midgardsormr, it is hinted at that he is a god who was born given a physical form at some point. It is hinted that he is on the same level as Hydaelyn.

There was a third but I forget, lol

[Anonymoose]

So - perhaps I'm not crazy, perhaps I'll find that quote

Still haven't found what made me start saying it in the first place, but I did find this in ARR, basically confirming the idea.

The imbalance they have created is plunging the land into chaos, just as Louisoix forewarned.

It's no wonder the primals have started appearing...

To make sure I'm reading it properly, here's the French text.

Louisoix avait raison... l'ordre naturel de cette planète est perturbé.
Louisoix was right... The natural order of this planet has been disturbed.

Voilà pourquoi sont nées des créatures qui ne devaient pas exister, les Primordiaux...
That's why were born creatures that should not exist, the Prim(ordi)als...

[Waffilicious]

I thought Odin was an old cursed king fated to wander for all eternity with his being implanted in the sword.

Allagans could of made a deal with midgarsorm or just put him to sleep like bahamut.

The garuda lyrics tell her story in a very brief and cloudy way, it is said she was some kind of fallen angel? Maybe one of the dwellers of the floating eden the ixalis want to reach in the ixali beastmen sidequest?

[treuhavik]

French text.

This lends some weight to my(our?) theory. Thanks!

Though, the theory still doesn't provide any insight into what the primals actually are or what they were, and I'm relooking at how the Ascians fit in to all of this.

[myahele]

Not sure where I'm going with this, but what really struck me during the Chrysalis trial was when Nabriales inverted the background it reminded me so much of Hydaelyn's realm: A big crystal with smaller crystals surrounding it. If those crystals in Zodiark's realm represent each individual Ascien, then perhaps the same is true for the smaller crystals surrounding Hydaelyn?

[treuhavik]

Ascians, Primals, Elementals, The Twelve, they're all connected...somehow. It's so close, yet so far off...

[Applesnap]

The only difference is, the worshipping of Mog and Shiva is based on individuals that were known to exist, while all of the other primals backstories are more vague.

The problem is - and always has been - the majority's perception of what a primal actually is. They explicitly outline this in-game as part of the King Moggle Mog XII's questline. You have to be willing to think for yourself and not just presume, which is the trap most Eorzeans also fall willing prey to.

My personal belief has always been that primals are simply whatever their worshippers want them to be. They will vary accordingly but they take a default template. Most will temper individuals to their cause, for example, but what if summoners included in their cries of anguish the ability to be possessed / de-possessed at will, whilst still wielding the primal's power and retaining their individuality? I introduce you to Shiva. What if the summoners only wished for a protector to guard them against intruders, against duplicitous enemies who willfully broke an age-old covenant (see Lominsan vs Kobold backstory)? There's Titan. Perhaps something merciless to kill innocents going on about their lives (at sea) in retribution for slain youngsters, decimated nesting grounds and imminent extinction due to intruding "landwalkers"? Hello Leviathan. A merciless harbinger of destruction to carry out mayhem and genocide, fuelled by a generations-old bitterness, boundless hatred towards Gridanians and an arrogance that will challenge the very winds themselves. Hey Garuda!

Before being summoned, primals are drifting the Lifestream like any other fragment of aether waiting to have a purpose, but upon entering our physical realm - the "waking world" - they are given that and take on their own, specific and indestructible identity. This is why they cannot truly be destroyed. Their essense, their unique blend of "aetheric DNA" if you will, simply waits to be summoned back, sacrificing up the aether in crystals their worshippers offer in abundance.

Primals are quite literally the primal ("primordial" or "principal") embodiment of their summoners' wishes, shaped into an aetheric being that becomes sentient. Once it's summoned, they often lose control of it. In order to ensure its continued survival, the primal enthralls its worshippers to make sure it'll be re-summoned. Sound familiar?

I'm a writer and a storyteller myself; an avid lover of all things lore and always in pursuit of knowledge. Sometimes you have to look beyond what's given to you in order to truly understand it, and I think that's the case here too. We'll see with future primals, I suppose!

[TinyRedLeaf]

Sometimes you have to look beyond what's given to you in order to truly understand it, and I think that's the case here too.

Yes indeed.

My personal belief has always been that primals are simply whatever their worshippers want them to be... Primals are quite literally the primal ("primordial" or "principal") embodiment of their summoners' wishes, shaped into an aetheric being that becomes sentient.

I think that's the conclusion most of us would by now share: The primals are literally ideas formed out of prayers and hopes, and given life by the generous application of aether.

What's interesting, though, is how they tie into the overarching theme of A Realm Reborn. I can't find it now, but Yoshida mentioned in a recent interview (or was it a live letter?) that one of the key themes he wanted to explore through the game was the different views of justice that each society holds dear.

I felt that this has always been a dominant part of the story since as long ago as version 1, and it manifests most obviously in the way each city-state is organised, not along ethnic or racial lines (as is usually the case), but rather on ideological beliefs.

For example, Limsa Lominsa's love for "freedom" (and its dark side, the unspoken assumption that it takes overwhelming might to secure that "freedom"), Gridania's wish for sanctity and purity (which leads to a suffocating conformity, as every Gridanian unquestioningly obeys the Elementals' decree) and Ul'dah's belief in meritocracy (that unfortunately breeds a familiar form of elitism, where those who can't or don't prosper are deemed to be worthless scum living off the success of others).

The primals are, in turn, the reactionary response of the disenfranchised masses towards the perceived abuses of "civilised" men. In my mind, the plight of the beast tribes in Eorzea closely echoes that of many nations and cultures in the real world.

It's not too far a stretch, for example, to describe our present geopolitical situation as a "war of civilisations", with embittered Muslims pitting themselves against an apparently uncaring West. Driven to desperation, these "Muslims" have twisted their own religion to serve their own radical agenda. This makes them very similar to Eorzea's tempered beast tribes in behaviour — it's noteworthy that every beast tribe has factions that reject the primals' influence, the way moderate Muslims reject their radicalised brethren in our reality.

The beast tribes are all fighting for justice too. But, needless to say, their idea of "justice" differs from those of the enlightened races. Whose justice is correct? It's an open question for players to "Answer".

And amid this ideological struggle comes the Garlean Empire, which offers an iconoclastic version of "justice": the Imperials claim to be saviours seeking to liberate Eorzea from the "false religion" of the Twelve and the primals.

As a result, I'm tempted to liken the Garleans to the former Soviet Union. And we all know what happened to that "evil empire".

[elemental10]

I think we can all relate to the Ninja class questline, when the Domans explained that their form of controlling the surrounding elemental prowess is similar to Eorzean's controlling of Aether.
Ifrit, as the lord of the inferno, was borned from flames under the Amaljaas. They needed crystals, loads of it, to even get him into materialization. The Amaljaas' concept of "power" and "hope" is that born of their surrounding. They live in a desert, hot places where the sun shines and it's hot most of the time. So, Ifrit was attributed to such aetheric property, being the lord of inferno, the Amaljaas obviously thought that such an entity holds much power and hope. In times of great needs, especially after Dalamud happened, the Amaljaas needed Ifrit, their "god", to exist. By manipulating aether to their needs, they are able to bring the primal to form.