Progression locks are bad

[Ashkendor]

Eh, I jump in T5 and T9 clear parties a lot, whether it be in PF or LS/FC groups.

Hell, just tonight I tanked a T9 clear. *shrugs*

[HyperiusUltima]

See, even on my server there are sellers wanting to sell Coil Tiers. Nobody is wanting to do it anymore, which is kinda bad since BARELY anyone would even go back to it. T5? It's hard being on my server. People treating others like douchebags and even putting all the blame on somebody is not tolerable for me. It makes the whole group fail, and it winds up with people just leaving after 15 minutes. (*cough*Japan*cough*)

I'm even somewhat pissed when it comes to sellers, considering the fact it takes away the learning experience from Coil. I can understand how Coil can be spammable(for some of its loots in T9 and T13, yes). But selling everything including any other Game Content is just wrong IMO.

[Tiva]

I agree 100% with the OP. I hope that if they release raid content in HW it will be solo raid releases. Not raids attached to other raids. This would force more bosses to be released (great!) and make it more accessible to returning players.

I don't even really agree with the points made about coil. Sure, all the final fights have divebombs.. but the way you deal with them is so different they might as well be different mechanics. And I don't even agree that t13 divebombs are harder than t9 divebombs. T13 divebombs are very simple and theres nothing else going on in that time to worry about. Most of the final coil content is way easier then t9 (I even think t13 is easier than t9 for everything except maybe healers). So why is it fair that ppl are stuck on t9 still when they could probably do t10 very easily? If people want to skip story let them! They can watch the cutscenes on youtube. Its their life. Same thing with primals. Shiva ex is so easy! Why do people have to fight Ramuh (a pug killer imo) to fight shiva? I don't think they should have to.

I personally don't have an issue with this. But I have friends that do. So many ppl still stuck on t9 or even t5 still. Coil was cool. But now I think it would be great if they made the raids not have "turns". Just one tier, a raid, next tier, new raid not related to the other raid with a new story. However, since this is SE and they love their epic long stories that never end, we're probably in for much of the same.

Its not very nice to sit here shaming the op saying things like ("well my pugs can kill t5, seems like the problem is you" or "t5 isnt hard", I'm paraphrasing obviously). He's pointing out a real issue with the game and being dumped on like HE'S the problem. It's easy to sit on a high horse and tell more casual players "GET GUD". It's harder to see things from their point of view and show compassion. What this leads to is players feeling very frustrated and leaving the game. Hopefully Alexander having two difficulty levels will help some of this.

[ShaneDawn]

Well, sure, that would be the ideal solution if you truly wish to challenge yourself. Figuring out coil mechanics is a different beast from your average dungeons though. Besides, it's pretty much common courtesy to know the fight at least by theory. Maybe not in T5, but T6 is the first you'll face with such mentality, as people expect kill runs. No one is forced to watch a guide at all, but that one person may turn into the one single factor that messes up the run for the seven other people, unless it's a preformed group. It's common courtesy to prepare for extreme content to the best of your ability.

There's no one to tell you how you must play this game, but prepare to face some salty response by some of the more obnoxious players.

[ShaneDawn]

@Kisai, damned phone won't let me edit.

[Malevicton]

PF is definitely the better bet. I'm not saying it's mad easy, the only thing I disagree with you on is how you insist on absolutes; "impossible" "not doable". Not to mention you calling me out on not having numbers, and then you just use ballpark estimates to back yourself up. The reason numbers are great at backing things up is because of their mathematical certainty. If your numbers are a guess then your numbers don't back anything up :P

Anyways, I don't track all of my pug experiences on a spreadsheet anywhere, but I know I've cleared t5 in df multiple times. Whether it was once or a million times, it can't be impossible.

[Callinon]

Okay, I am posting to assure the OP that some people understand what he means.

I'm not so sure about that.

I wanted to give feedback from my particular perspective (the only one I'm qualified to give feedback on) that locking content behind other irrelevant content is bad. Basically making me do the previous raid in order to do the current raid when I don't need any gear from it.

For a WoW analogy, it'd be like forcing me to complete Mogu'shan Vaults before I'm allowed to step foot into Throne of Thunder. This is something neither Blizzard nor any other major developer does because it doesn't make any sense to do that and needlessly encumbers newer players.

But the consensus here, apart from a tiny handful of people who actually seemed to understand my posts, is that progression locks are fantastic. All hail the progression lock. And keeping newer players away from current content as long as possible is not only a good thing but a great thing.

So I guess both I and my perspective are wrong.

Btw I did complete T5 today with a new group who want to work on T9. Having completed T5, I STILL believe that progression locks are bad. But what do I know.

[Kaze3434]

But the consensus here, apart from a tiny handful of people who actually seemed to understand my posts, is that progression locks are fantastic. All hail the progression lock. And keeping newer players away from current content as long as possible is not only a good thing but a great thing.

So I guess both I and my perspective are wrong.

Btw I did complete T5 today with a new group who want to work on T9. Having completed T5, I STILL believe that progression locks are bad. But what do I know.

just because people dont agree with your opinion doesnt mean they dont understand it.

[Spoekes]

Gotta agree with Mr Cook that finding a group is the most important thing.

That thing however is not so trivial for T5 and T9.
You can find 10 statics to join for FCOB with any role any day of the week, but the difficulty of finding these groups for the older content is often underestimated by players who got the kill while it was current tier.

[MrCookTM]

Gotta agree with Mr Cook that finding a group is the most important thing.

That thing however is not so trivial for T5 and T9.
You can find 10 statics to join for FCOB with any role any day of the week, but the difficulty of finding these groups for the older content is often underestimated by players who got the kill while it was current tier.

I can absolutely see your point. Though just having the kill is what maybe gets you into a group, it's not neccesserily what makes you stay there. One prime example is that we recently kicked a dragoon that we ran with out of our group after a handful of raid nights, because he did terrible dps in fcob and failed easy mechanics repeatedly. We then asked him to join us in a T9 to help a FC friend out for the kill, but he 'didn't feel comfortable with the fight'... One can only imagine, what the reason was (prolly bought the kill).

Anyway. Doing these fights, T5, all of scob including T9, ex-primals etc. basically all execution-heavy, non locked out content repeatedly together with your FC/LS/Friendslist will put you on notice IF you're a decent player and will lead to a place in a static eventually, one that you will not lose immediately after because you learned how to play your job in stressful content and became a capable player. Not needing to do any of this stuff in order to have access to fcob won't lead ppl anywhere but frustration because 'omfgshitneedzanerf' pugs wipe to T10 enrage with the boss still having 15% hp (happened to my gf about a week ago ^^) because 123ing 350+ dps (more isn't needed) while executing mechanics apparently is quite the task.