Spell Fencer > Red Mage(Concept!)

[Atlaworks]

Hey guess who's beating a dead horse guys that's right it's me

I spent the last few weeks thinking of a system for an RDM job in the game, and while the want for one and problems posed with implementing one are not lost on me(I read the forums, that was a trip), I did want to try and implement one that still fit fine in the holy trinity of class roles that FFXIV uses- which is fine. I don't care what Red Mage was in FFXI. This isn't FFXI. I am doing this for funsies anyway. While it'd be cool to see something like this in game, I recognize that I am a hack who did not do THAT much research and there are probably like a dozen problems with my writeup that you awesome folks are totally going to point out to me and I am going to love it. Especially potencies. I am totally sure I messed potencies up so hard and they are way too high. Also I didn't know what to scale MP off of.

The idea for a Red Mage to me is that their skills in the series as a whole have always laid in their versatility- the core of the red mage is "Do nothing the best, but do everything alright". Ideally, their lack of talent in one area is made up for by combining it with other areas. No that does not mean support- at least any more than any class in the current game provides. It means a melee-magic hybrid who is not as good as a black mage at dropping hot arson, or as good as a monk at punching Bahamut in the junk, but a fighter who can still give an alright jab at Bahamut's junk while said jab is also on fire. And that makes all the difference.

Spell Fencer
It all started the day an enterprising young thaumaturge smelted a thin sword blade to his scepter...

Spell Fencers are bloodsand gladiators of Ul'Dah that, while lacking sufficient aetherical aptitude at thaumaturgy or skill with a blade, make up for it by using both in conjunction to support one another. They are classified as a caster DPS class, and generally use cloth armor. Their primary stat is INT, and both their physical and magical attacks scale off of it for damage purposes. Their spells are instant cast for the most part, and run off of a separate GCD of their physical attacks. Their weapons are rapiers, which are one handed, and use light bucklers in offhand. They attack incredibly fast, but their skills have much lower potencies than other classes. Their notable class feature, in addition to being melee and magic hybrid, is "Freeform combos", where their attacks have multiple combo actions to choose from. Due to them constantly skillweaving, branching combos, and being heavily based on skill speed, spell fencers are a class with a great deal of burst potential and utility; but they tend to run out of resources quickly!


Abilities:

Featherblow: Lv. 1
Deals physical damage with a potency of 70. 60 TP.
Levin: Lv. 2
Deals lightning damage with a potency of 30.
Combo Action Aetherstrike: Restores 100 TP.
Combo Action Nighthawk: Moves the user away from the target.
Riposte & Remise: Level 4
Increases parry rate and accuracy by 15%. Cooldown of 90 seconds.
Aetherstrike: Level 6
Deals physical damage with a potency of 40. 60 TP.
Combo Action Levin: Restores MP.
Shadowstick: Level 8
Deals physical damage with a potency of 100 and inflicts Bind for 10 seconds. Cooldown of 45 seconds.
Combo Action Crag: Inflicts Stun on target for 4 seconds. Does not inflict Bind.
Aphonia: Level 10
Silences target for 6 seconds. 120 second cooldown.
Vortex: Lv. 12
Deals wind damage with a potency of 60.
Combo Action Nighthawk: Increases potency to 100.
Combo Action Featherblow: Inflicts Slow(6s) on the enemy.
Combo Action Piercing Blow: Consumes Piercing Blow's debuff effect on nearby targets in order to do 100 potency wind damage to them.
Swallowtail: Level 15
Deals physical damage with a potency of 40 to all enemies around the user. 110 TP.
Combo Action Whorlpool: Increases potency to 60.
Combo Action Levin: Restores a small amount of MP for each target affected. Targets do not take damage.
Crag: Level 18
Deals earth damage with a potency of 70.
Combo Action Featherblow: Increases potency to 100.
Whorlpool: Level 22
Deals water damage with a potency of 40 to all enemies around the user.
Combo Action Swallowtail: Increases potency to 60.
Combo Action Nighthawk: Pulls affected targets towards the user.
Spellbound: Lv. 26
Increases skill speed by 10% for 30 seconds. Cooldown of 60 seconds.
Checkmate: Level 30
Deals physical damage with a potency of 150. Can only be executed on targets below 20% HP. 10 second cooldown.
Combo Action Inferno: Increases potency to 300 and recast time to 30 seconds.
Flourish: Level 34
Inicreases a party member's MP regeneration for 30 seconds. 180 second cooldown.
Nighthawk: Level 38
Deals physical damage with a potency of 70 at a distance. Moves user next to the enemy when used. Cannot be executed if bound. 120 TP.
Combo Action Vortex: Will not move the user.
Runic: Level 42
Completely avoid the next magical damage taken. Lasts 5 seconds. 120 second cooldown.
Dispel: Level 46
Removes one beneficial effect from the target. 30 second cooldown.
Piercing Blow
Deals physical damage with a potency of 70 to all enemies in a straight line in front of the user and lowers their dexterity by 5% for 10 seconds. 60 second cooldown.
Combo Action Nighthawk: Pushes all affected targets away from the user.
Traits
Enhanced Intelligence: Level 8
increases Intelligence by 2.
Enhanced Intelligence II: Level 14
Increases Intelligence by 4.
Pin Down: Level 16
Reduces the cooldown until the next use of Shadowstick by 1 second for every attack made.
Rapier Wit: Level 20
Increases damage done with physical and magical attacks by 10%.
Aetherdexterous: Level 24
Increases TP restored by Levin's combo action to 150 and increases MP recovered by Aetherstrike's combo action by 50%.
Enhanced Intelligence III: Level 28
Increases Intelligence by 6.
Zen: Level 32
Heavily increases HP, MP, and TP regeneration when out of combat.
Enhanced Spellbound: Level 36
Increases the skill speed increase of Spellbound to 30%.
Rapier Wit 2: Level 40
Increases damage done with physical and magical attacks by 30%.
Enhanced Flourish: Level 44
Lowers the cooldown time of Flourish to 90 seconds.
Enhanced Dispel: Level 48
Also removes one beneficial effect from enemies around the target.

Red Mage
You'd have to be a fool to think the world is only black and white.

The Red Mage is something of an urban legend or folk hero from times long past- Tall tales told of heretical archmages who betrayed their nations for knowledge during the War of the Magi in the 5th Astral Era. These magus of legend learned to harness the aether in their surroundings, intertwined in their swordplay, while still managing their own internal reserves of aether as well. They did neither as well as those specialized in their respective fields, but developed their own art through a hodgepodge of techniques- learning new ways to both harness and manipulate aether that no nation was able to grasp. However, like so many other things the art was lost to all but a handful in the wake of the 6th umbral era. Unlocking Red Mage requires level 30 Spell Fencer, as well as level 15 in both Conjurer and Thaumaturge. Red Mage skills don't focus on a blade near so much as a conventional Spell Fencer, but their manipulation of magic is quite potent- They have the potential to do greater damage, but balancing your MP and TP will be more difficult in doing so!

Red Mage skills
Blood Price: Level 30
Allows the user to use HP instead of MP to cast spells for 30 seconds. HP cost per spell is double that of MP. Can be recast to cancel effect prematurely; cooldown begins when the effect ends. 150 second cooldown.
Mummer's Farce: Level 35
Transfers enmity generated by skills for the duration to the target with the highest current enmity. 10 second duration. 180 second recast time.
Doublecast: Level 40
Allows the user to cast spells while moving, attacking, or using Spell Fencer skills for 30 seconds. Casting may still be interrupted through attacks or distance, but not by breaking line of sight. 180 second cooldown.
Cantrip: Level 45
Restores 50% maximum MP. Costs 500 TP. 180 second cooldown.
Inferno: Level 50
Deals fire damage with a potency of 200 to an enemy and all enemies near it. 4.3 second cast time. 30 second cooldown.
Combo Action Nighthawk: Pushes the target and user away from each other, as well as any affected targets.
Combo Action Shadowstick: Increases potency to 300, and removes area damage. Negates Inferno's cast time.
Combo Action Swallowtail: Increases the area of Inferno.
Combo Action Aetherstrike: Slightly reduces Inferno's MP cost.

---
That should be all! I honestly am missing a bunch of combo actions, but I want to pick those really carefully- too many would make spell fencers have way too much utility and I'd have to nerf their potencies into the ground even harder. I would totally love feedback, pointers, corrections, hate mail, and death threats regardless!

[RxRai]

I love the idea of a class that has to balance between TP and MP management. Also the image of slashing with a sword, casting magic with the other hand and then unleashing a flurry of strikes and stabs again as a combo.

I feel like there might be almost too much choice in the possible combos though. It lends some serious versatility to the class but you have to keep in mind that SE would want people to play the job without having to strain their brains remembering what every single combo does. Maybe if it were more like two sets of the Ninja's Mudras (but actual attacks of course) that were separate but within their groups each had those different combo actions. Just feel that the learning curve may be a bit too high to even call it an easy to learn/hard to master job.
It could be that one combo 'set' is TP heavy and the other is MP heavy. That would also allow for some range capability if each had a single magic attack that restored the other resource slightly (it'd be more if it was in the combo).

As for the moves you laid out:

Dispel - an interesting idea but there's not currently much in the way of debuffing enemies. Maybe it could be a utility skill to get rid of ally debuffs.

Nighthawk - I can see what you're trying to do with it as a gap closer but it might be too OP given a PVP situation. You could be jumping around the battlefield non stop unless it has a cooldown, or charges that regenerate over time. (could make it so a combo action grants it a charge)

Anyway, just my thoughts. Really love the idea though since Red Mages are one of my favourite classes ever. Mixing magic and swords are always fun in my mind. Even moreso if you can set your blade alight with magic or cover it with a vortex (hint hint at self buffs like fists of fire but on your weps ^^)

[Eloah]

I seem to have started a trend, lol. I have read your ideas and I have my own opinions. While your ideas aren't bad, they do feel a little unorganized. I am willing to offer some feedback, but I will warn you some of it might sound harsh, but a good critique can be, lol. Now, while I prepare my critique might I suggest looking at the Red Mage concept I made at, http://tinyurl.com/ff14arrjobs . Now while I wont suggest my ideas are better than anyone elses, but I will say I did quite a bit of research to find any and all moves used by Red Mages in the past. Something I'm not sure everyone has done, and you yourself admitsed to not doing. I will have my critique after some extensive reviewing.

[ZhycranaDranix]

OMG only if this was real...... That Double Cast .....UMMMERRGUD

[Atlaworks]

Snip.

I actually did read that. While I was writing this up I had like ten tabs open with every RDM mockup I could find on the forums, and a bunch of wiki stuff for reference. Yours was one of them! But a lot of mockups I found followed a mechanic I didn't like, and that was imbuing magic or elements into physical attacks. It's cool, but to me it's just not what Red Mages do- Mystic Knight, totes, but that's a different can of aether to me. So I tried to follow a sort of "Uses both swords and spells with low potencies, needs to use both to stay effective" line of thought. Likewise, I took my entire mockup from Fencer moves from the FFTA series, a few Red Mage passives and actives, and Aphonia from FFTA assassins. Only the magic attacks I made up, and I just used Primal titles to differentiate the elemental attacks from THM and CNJ skills.

I felt Doublecast was necessary since it's been a RDM staple since FFV, and I didn't want to make a Chaincast mechanic- I felt I made their passive "two seperate GCDs" mechanic plenty close to what chainspell is a bit like, and wanted to avert the mechanics that made the FFXI Red Mage different from the more classic examples in the series. I can see where you think my work is disorganized though; I actually spent a lot of time switching up what skills are learned at what levels and what combo actions to add/prune and honestly I just had a field day and posted it when I thought it looked good so I wouldn't lose the work.

My research I skipped is mostly in balancing numbers; TP costs and potencies probably need to be adjusted so that they're in line with doing a little less/more than half a normal DPS class' skills on average. And I didn't add MP costs because I am dumb and don't know what the scale for those is. But I did do lore work!

Snip.

I did design the class to be hard to master- it's difficulty is supposed to be in just how fast you have to input skills correctly to do effective DPS, considering it starts at base twice as fast as any other class and is rife with buffs to attack and skill speeds. I feel it may have Mudra's problem with latency, though. And of course I can't write potencies to save my life.

I gave Nighthawk no cooldown because it can't be executed if bound and it has combo actions that turn it into both a multitude of movement and pushing skills, as well as a looped combo that lets you do damage at a range for more MP/TP costs. I also realized I didn't build any movement mechanic into the class except for Nighthawk- Monks have Fist of Wind and Shoulder Tackle, Dragoons have Spineshatter Dive and Elusive Jump, Bards have Repelling Shot, ninjas have Shukuchi, and casters can just sprint freely. I figured that Nighthawk is a necessity to pull or push yourself out of attacks- and fits in with the RDM style of being highly adjustable at a cost. It's also bindlocked like Repelling Shot. I probably need to increase it's TP cost or something though to discourage overuse.

The only dispelling move currently is Monk's One-Ilm Punch, and I'm pretty sure monks don't use it for much except for PvP. I thought it'd be nice to have it in a more flexible form- even if dispelling buffs on enemies is mostly useless, it'd be awesome in PvP and it keeps the effect from being on only one class, thus enforcing the "Bring the player not the class" mentality. I thought about having it remove debuffs on allies too, but I didn't want the class to invalidate healers in any way. Especially having an AoE Esuna- Man, they've wanted one of those for so long, bwahahaha.

As for heavy and light combos, I actually plugged those in- there's no real heavy TP attack, but they have Inferno as Red Mages, which is designed to have really high MP costs and potent combo actions. You can spam it, especially with things like Swiftcast and Doublecast and Blood Price, but then you'll end up dry on MP(Or HP!) really fast. Then you use Cantrip to restore your MP in exchange for TP. There's also a looping combo of Aetherstrike and Levin that restores MP and TP when it runs dry, since with their attack speed buffs I intend for their resources to run out fairly easy in prolonged fights. Of course, if you're relegated to using Aetherstrike and Levin you'll be doing a whopping 70 potency every GCD, so it kind of punishes you for not being smart with your resources. Zen is also there to make them not feel too throttled when soloing or fighting trash in dungeons- ensuring those resources will replenish before the next pull since they'll naturally burn through them faster than other classes. Pin Down also encourages using your skills as quickly as possible, since Shadowstick is not only a bind and a stun, but combos into Inferno and Checkmate for a really brutal execution combo.

That being said, I love both your points! There's definitely plenty that can be cleaned up with what I did, and god knows I understand how messy it is. Balance is tough, man.

[Eloah]

EDIT INCOMING

Good to hear, if you like I can save my critique until after you make any changes you want to make. Additionally, a good idea might be to label which move is a weapon skil, an ability, or a spell, so we know which one will cost TP, MP or No P, lol. And while TP amounts should ne listed MP ones dont since they scale anyway. Also yes the potencies need to be adjusted.

[Eloah]

Snip

Yay my ideas were helpful. I am wondering though if my Red Mage seemed the way you said others were I know I have magic and melee, but I tried to keep them seperate as well. I did give them an aspir and drain attack as part of a combo, but that might not be mystic knight exclusive, but I would love to hear your thoughts on my red mage as well. Plus I think I was the only one who made them as a tank, lol. I will be working on my critique tomorrow, I hope you like it, and I will try to fit it to the styl you were invisioning.

[Eloah]

Sorry I haven't been able to post my ideas yet, real life has been getting in the way, always a pleasure, yay?

[Atlaworks]

Naw man, fire away. I'd love to read it.

[Madrone]

No doubt mine was one of the builds embracing enspell and elements of a Mystic Knight you looked at. There are some compelling reasons to take that approach, namely to make a mechanic that embraces casting and rewards meleeing. There's also precedent for blending two jobs together, like: THF/NIN, and BRD/RNG are currently in the game.

Good work and keep polishing it. I know I've been meaning to touch-up my RDM build concept since we came out of beta, and even moreso lately with the increased number of skills/traits for a level 60 version of it.

As for a tank role, I think a Mystic Knight would do that better. IMO RDM is best suited to a role of DPS with a lot of utility. I did dabble with the idea of letting RDM clutch tank trash/adds by spamming an AOE sword move that produced Earth element enspell stacks, had enmity bonus, and Enstone's bonus effect is Phalanx buff, i.e. reduced damage taken. It would not be sufficient to out tank a real tank's AOE moves in a tanking stance however. So it was still viable as RDM's way of doing AOE damage. Capable of tanking, yes. Good at it, not really. Along the same lines as having enough healing power to take over briefly if healer(s) is/are incapacitated.

But then I figured why not let RDM have a spell Phalanx instead and use it on the tank? I also didn't have enough available skills at a level 50 build to really consider making combo's and fleshing out enspell elements beyond fire, ice, and thunder. However, going that route, Air, Water, and Earth should all produce defensive effects (Spikes/armor spells, or auras of AOE buff), and wouldn't necessarily need combo's to generate the stacks, just casting spells of those elements. And could make it so RDM could have one offensive element, enspell, and one defensive, spikes/aura, so long as they were not opposing elements like fire/water.... I definitely need to get back to tinkering on it.