Why bring MNK to anything anymore?

[Craiger]

I don't see a reason we need a "way to keep stacks" or "Getting them back" - Multiplicative scaling is Monks' name of the game, and come HW, with GL4 we get

+36% Damage
+20% attackspeed
Those alone combined are 63.2% bonus damage.. and it only gets better when you use cooldowns; Internal Release goes from being a 15% (30% crit / 50% extra damage 30% of the time) average increase to a 24.48% increase, assuming no changes are made. Blood For Blood becomes 16.32% increased damage.

Even if we don't get more damage cooldowns we get 63.2% damage constantly from greased, +5% on fists of fire, and + 10% from Twin Snakes, + 10% from Dragon kick... We don't need anything, maybe a way to consume stacks and do liek a 4-500 potency attack?

Are you just assuming we will get GL4? cause I haven't heard anything about that... Might very well be true though.

That being said, if we get GL4, then they would buff NIN/DRG accordingly, so that the difference would be exactly the same... Or they would have to find another way to balance that increase of DPS + DK/Mantra.

It's going to be even worse if we get GL4 btw... Then you have to build up 4 stacks before you can even start catching up to NIN/DRG DPS. I know that awesome players can keep the stacks in a lot of fights, but there are cases where it's impossible to do it. You might be able to keep them when everything goes perfect, but if doesn't you're screwed. Who knows how the fights will be in Alexander too...

I'm not asking for us to get an ability that gives you back all stacks or something, cause that would have to have as long CD as PB, which would be pointless... But why not get an OGC ability that gives 1 stack, and has pretty low CD(40 sec). If you lose all your stacks, you will still do lower DPS, but unless you have PB off CD(and don't want to save it for something), then it could help you get back some at least. It wouldn't refresh your GL duration though, because that would be too much.... Only give a stack

That, or some ability that refreshes your GL duration without having to use Demo/Snap...

[Bhearil]

Personally i think it will be MUCH better to get a passive that increase each Greased Lightning buff efects. Unless you burn perfect balance it takes quite a while to wind up all the buffs already, if we get another stack most normal fights will be almost over before we reach maximun power.

Also monk losing stacks is also problematic on a design point of view, since if any boss leaves the area for more than a few seconds monks instalose their stacks and have to build it again, making those kinds of mechanics non viable, or making monks useless on those fights

[SpookyGhost]

Then I'd like you to take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

nerf drg 2 op

[Zephyr-Umbra]

They deserve it after being the underdogs for so long, good on them.

I would like to see more numbers though, am i the only one who gets off on seeing the parse numbers for Dps classes? its like number porn.

On topic though, i would like to just say all classes have their pros and cons, compatibility and synergy and monk is no exception, while from the numbers i've seen they're definitely not the best Dps in a fight that lasts longer than 5 minutes they are still fast and out damage most of the others in shorter fights, just my personal observation, but this game won't give you any penalties for choosing any of Dps classes, they're all capable of competing and bringing something unique to the table, for the others getting all "Omg your ninja parses 20 more than my monk, NERF TO OP!" as an example, you have to bare gear and situational aspects into it, because they're all very well balanced to the point were rotations, gear, positioning and your reaction time are more crucial.

[Gildarts]

This is laughable, tell that monk to get good. Do not use this parse to compare monk and ninja please. Monk can do way more damage than that pre echo. And I agree with Odo, learn to weave and cover that blm for max raid dps. Dont get me started on GL4. The hype is too much for me .

Then I'd like you to take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

please not. PRE ECHO BUFF. So yes, this is laughable.

only thing is laughable is you pretty much.

Parse is from Jan 2...MNK was using i125 Zodiac weapon and wasn't even that geared.

only persons with Dread weapon in that parse were the PLD and WHM.

[siverstorm]

We've reached that strange point again where people are trying to have an epeen contest....using other guilds parses :S

[SpookyGhost]

When it's a 10-20 DPS difference I think we're really starting to nitpick here. I don't know why people think MNK should have the highest damage - they have comparable damage to NIN and DRG and bring DK + traited Mantra. If you balance for skill and make one class superior in DPS and utility to the others if you can reach the skill cap, then that class becomes OP because everyone will play it and DRG/NIN will be left in the dust. This isn't like SMN who is far behind BLM, or WAR who was far behind PLD in terms of tanking capability in 2.0. This is literally whining about 10-20 DPS because "I have to work harderrrrr ; _ ;". You don't get a balanced game by making the harder to play classes more powerful.

[HeavensSword]

We've reached that strange point again where people are trying to have an epeen contest....using other guilds parses :S

Lol, this is a first for me.

"Pfft, l2p scrub. Your deeps are so bad, check out my parse... from some other person, on another server, in another guild, that I don't know."

[MrCookTM]

This has been pointed out a thousand times before but I can't stress it enough. Monk was absolutely invaluable during progression this patch, so invaluable that you barely saw any group without one, double monk even being one of the most popular group compositions early on. Now? Stuff is on farm, it doesn't matter at all really what you bring to a raid. Ppl do T12 with 4 Blm's just for the lulz. If anything the one to complain is still drg, even post buff, because even though drg's dps went up quite a bit and survibability is very good now, he still has slightly lower dps and significantly less utility than the other melee jobs.

Mnk and nin are still on par and while it's true that mnk requires more work than nin to reach those numbers, it's still not hard. Every mnk knows the tricks to keep stacks for every encounter by know and is able to execute them.

[Ephier]

This has been pointed out a thousand times before but I can't stress it enough. Monk was absolutely invaluable during progression this patch, so invaluable that you barely saw any group without one, double monk even being one of the most popular group compositions early on. Now? Stuff is on farm, it doesn't matter at all really what you bring to a raid. Ppl do T12 with 4 Blm's just for the lulz. If anything the one to complain is still drg, even post buff, because even though drg's dps went up quite a bit and survibability is very good now, he still has slightly lower dps and significantly less utility than the other melee jobs.

Mnk and nin are still on par and while it's true that mnk requires more work than nin to reach those numbers, it's still not hard. Every mnk knows the tricks to keep stacks for every encounter by know and is able to execute them.

My group did progression with no MNK, so while they were useful, they definitely were not invaluable, especially after DRG buffs in 2.45.