Why bring MNK to anything anymore?

[lulunami]

I'm not familiar with weaving ES nor do I understand how this is going to work when you have a puddle right underneath you. Does weaving just cause the puddle to not appear?

In P1, you basically just zigzag away from and toward Bahamut to land your GCDs attacks while placing the puddles far enough away from Bahamut. In P4, you should not do this since the puddles stay on the battlefield longer.

[Lorielle]

In P1, you basically just zigzag away from and toward Bahamut to land your GCDs attacks while placing the puddles far enough away from Bahamut. In P4, you should not do this since the puddles stay on the battlefield longer.

Oh, I see now. Definitely a P1 thing. It does solve a DPS loss in P1...Potentially P4, but it really depends on if the tanks are really willing to work with you on it. In most cases and groups, not really. Definitely would work out for a static group though.

[Odowla]

Your BLM have Swiftcast for 1st ES if necessary and eat the next 2 ES with Manawall.

You're still moving and not casting. No reason to do ti when it can be avoided.

As for weaving you just do this http://www.twitch.tv/bokchoykn/c/5883680 . You don't take a tick, and if you do it right (you can leave a little bit later than he does here, but it's a /very/ good demonstration) you don't lose any damage, Thus leaving cover free for anyone else.

[RathSkybreaker]

This is laughable, tell that monk to get good. Do not use this parse to compare monk and ninja please. Monk can do way more damage than that pre echo. And I agree with Odo, learn to weave and cover that blm for max raid dps. Dont get me started on GL4. The hype is too much for me .

This is from Lucrezia, probably the top guild in this game. Get good? Lol..

[Crescent_Dusk]

This is from Lucretzia, probably the top guild in this game. Get good? Lol..

You know, forum professors with a PhD in Skill.

[Spayd]

This is from Lucretzia, probably the top guild in this game. Get good? Lol..

Then I'd like you to take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

please not. PRE ECHO BUFF. So yes, this is laughable.

[Ooshima]

Then I'd like you to take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

please not. PRE ECHO BUFF. So yes, this is laughable.

Kill time 6:21 though. Probably one of their old parses posted on their Twitter. Top statics these days are more into running kill times rather than individual numbers since the group can adjust to rig anyone's number as they want.

If you want to nit pick you can go back to their Twitter and dig out some of the parses there where you can nit pick on other jobs like their BRD or whatsoever. 44X on T11? I'm sure everyone have seen BRDs parsed higher than that but is it laughable? I honestly don't think so. People are looking at their group DPS and kill time which they have always been out there setting the bar.

Unless you have the same kind of achievements as them I don't see how is it that you are actually laughing at anyone of them.

[RathSkybreaker]

Snip

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about whose better between Lucrezia and DnT. Also, the funniest part about the leader board, that you just posted,which mind you everyone in there mom knows about, in literally every top 3,save T13, ninja beats monk. The whole point of me showing the parse was to justify that Ninjas are equal or better than Monks in dps, and you've only proved it further, so thank you for that, also, unlike the parse, we know nothing about the party comp they went in with, was it double monk? You don't know. It's very easy to cheese parses, I'm not saying they did I'm just saying there's very little to prove they didn't.

And for the record, I'm not trying to discredit any guilds here, I have a ton of respect for those guys and I know a lot of the guys involved with doing those crazy pushes and I could never do it. I just think it's ridiculous that you'd point to that leader board which isn't transparent at all with any of the encounters. I take the numbers to be true like most people because it's DnT but at the end of the day they lack transparency which devalues the credibility even if they are real. Also, I'll point you to this, I'm sure you've seen this, and I'm sure you know they used the AoE strat in T10 to pull that off. https://twitter.com/Darkwis00/status/588015938542370817, how many of those parses you just linked did something similar, think a blm can pull 700 dps normally?

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Monks should maintain their relevance. Dragon Kick is seriously overpowered and at the very least a top tier mnk can still pump out some pretty crazy numbers,hell in progression for FCOB double monk was the god tier setup because no one knew how to play ninja, and DRG was complete garbage until they buffed the class. However that was then, and this is now, and they are now facing the fact that DRG and NIN can generally out parse them which isn't necessarily an issue due to the fact that Mnk has more consistent form of utility in DK, Nin has goad, DRG has disembowel but during progression unless you're hitting a dps wall, DK is probably more important to you. If Monk didn't have DK i'd be more worried for the classes relevance but it's way too strong to be worried about it. When in content is on farm it's a different issue, and when echo is involved then it is an issue because there's less of a reason to bring one over someone who can just deal more damage. At the end of the day I don't think it's crazy, Monk had it's time to shine as the top DPS in the game, and it still does decent, but DRG got super buffed, and Ninja has been min maxed to the point of DRG and MNK and it just so happens to be awesome, I mean, what did you honestly expect to happen?

Kill time 6:21 though. Probably one of their old parses posted on their Twitter. Top statics these days are more into running kill times rather than individual numbers since the group can adjust to rig anyone's number as they want.

If you want to nit pick you can go back to their Twitter and dig out some of the parses there where you can nit pick on other jobs like their BRD or whatsoever. 44X on T11? I'm sure everyone have seen BRDs parsed higher than that but is it laughable? I honestly don't think so. People are looking at their group DPS and kill time which they have always been out there setting the bar.

Unless you have the same kind of achievements as them I don't see how is it that you are actually laughing at anyone of them.

So much this.

[Craiger]

Early progression groups think MNK are OP with their Dragon Kick and Mantra, and that's really all that matters... I'm not saying MNK should be nerfed by any means, but for when it really matters, MNK are ahead of both DRG and NIN.

Once everyone starts getting more geared, and Dragon Kick/Mantra becomes less important(still important for less hardcore groups), it doesn't matter anyways... At that point, you should have no problem with DPS, and if your group does have it, you can't put that on MNK having a couple of points lower than a DRG/NIN...

I would like MNK to have another way of getting back GL stacks, or holding on to them in a better way, but as much as I would like them to get higher DPS too, they would have to nerf Dragon Kick/Mantra some then...

[Odowla]

I don't see a reason we need a "way to keep stacks" or "Getting them back" - Multiplicative scaling is Monks' name of the game, and come HW, with GL4 we get

+36% Damage
+20% attackspeed
Those alone combined are 63.2% bonus damage.. and it only gets better when you use cooldowns; Internal Release goes from being a 15% (30% crit / 50% extra damage 30% of the time) average increase to a 24.48% increase, assuming no changes are made. Blood For Blood becomes 16.32% increased damage.

Even if we don't get more damage cooldowns we get 63.2% damage constantly from greased, +5% on fists of fire, and + 10% from Twin Snakes, + 10% from Dragon kick... We don't need anything, maybe a way to consume stacks and do liek a 4-500 potency attack?