Why bring MNK to anything anymore?

[Crescent_Dusk]

Huton is 15% more damage

Greased is 46% more

not even a fair comparison

46% more after 3 cycles (9 globals, compare that to a mudra cast) or with perfect balance, come on. Don't act like monk base damage on their skills isn't also balanced on that 46% buff uptime whereas the ninja skill damage numbers are balanced around their 15% self buff.

[Odowla]

46% more after 3 cycles (9 globals, compare that to a mudra cast) or with perfect balance, come on. Don't act like monk base damage on their skills isn't also balanced on that 46% buff uptime whereas the ninja skill damage numbers are balanced around their 15% self buff.

After 3 fuckin' gcd's. If you randomly drop greased, like, i don't know what to say. You shouldn't be dropping in FCoB at all, except in T13 add phase.

[Crescent_Dusk]

After 3 fuckin' gcd's. If you randomly drop greased, like, i don't know what to say. You shouldn't be dropping in FCoB at all, except in T13 add phase.

I'm sorry, is anyone else dropping their damage buff in said phase? Is FCoB the only content in the game?

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you, it's clear you come into these forums with the sole purpose of being terse to strangers. Increasing stack durations even to 20 seconds would be a QoL increase across the entire game and it would not change the position of a monk as a damage dealer relative to the other classes.

[Odowla]

I'm sorry, is anyone else dropping their damage buff in said phase? Is FCoB the only content in the game?

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you, it's clear you come into these forums with the sole purpose of being terse to strangers. Increasing stack durations even to 20 seconds would be a QoL increase across the entire game and it would not change the position of a monk as a damage dealer relative to the other classes.

You know the add phase in T13 doesnt matter... you need to do X damage in Y seconds.. you being able to hit them doesnt matter. All the DPS could die and have 1 person solo it, and their dps would be 6000 or whatever, but what matters is your boss Damage. NOT a timed add phase.

[Greven]

When they'll add a dps/tank job based on blunt damage monk will have synergy as well. Plus 3.0 is just ahead of us, many things could be changing.

[Ephier]

He's refering to day one progression where DRG was worthless and MNK was the holy grail of DPS at the time.

NIN did more damage than it does now before 2.45 . . .

[Ooshima]

NIN did more damage than it does now before 2.45 . . .

Probably because of better tweaking due to experience.

Back then majority of the NINs aren't pre-casting huton, still casting Raiton every time instead of just using Shuriken if there's lags, etc. A lot of things are still pretty crude, now it is much more refined.

[PenutButter]

People who have not played all the jobs need to stop talking out of their asses like they know what they're talking about. And comparing your parse with someone else's is not a good comparison, due to differences in gears and skill that you may not be able to account for. Comparing your own jobs to each other will give you a better idea about the gear difference, skill difference (base on comfortable you are with each job, etc), and general potential of each job. It's helpful to compare the highest reported credible DPS for each job but there are many factors you have consider there as well.

Anyways, I have not played DRG for a long time so I'm not too sure how they compare but I have noticed the DPS of the DRGs I know have shot up significantly since the buff. Not quite a high as NIN but pretty close, I would say they're probably comparable to MNKs now. However, since DRG has numerous advantages over MNKs (such as piercing debuff, higher burst, more consistent damage, simpler play-style) there's no point in bringing MNK if DRG can do the same overall damage.

I play NIN and MNK a lot and I can safely say, there is no point in bringing a MNK when you can bring a comparable geared NIN. Not to say MNK can't get the job done, they're actually not that far behind, but if you want optimization, NIN can do it better. Then there's the fact that MNK and BLM are encumbered by mechanics way more than other DPS and have a higher mechanics-related learning curve.

I have not played PvP in a long time so maybe this has changed but MNK were absolutely HORRIBLE in PvP. I don't even want to talk about it.

[Crescent_Dusk]

People who have not played all the jobs need to stop talking out of their asses like they know what they're talking about. And comparing your parse with someone else's is not a good comparison, due to differences in gears and skill that you may not be able to account for. Comparing your own jobs to each other will give you a better idea about the gear difference, skill difference (base on comfortable you are with each job, etc), and general potential of each job. It's helpful to compare the highest reported credible DPS for each job but there are many factors you have consider there as well.

Anyways, I have not played DRG for a long time so I'm not too sure how they compare but I have noticed the DPS of the DRGs I know have shot up significantly since the buff. Not quite a high as NIN but pretty close, I would say they're probably comparable to MNKs now. However, since DRG has numerous advantages over MNKs (such as piercing debuff, higher burst, more consistent damage, simpler play-style) there's no point in bringing MNK if DRG can do the same overall damage.

I play NIN and MNK a lot and I can safely say, there is no point in bringing a MNK when you can bring a comparable geared NIN. Not to say MNK can't get the job done, they're actually not that far behind, but if you want optimization, NIN can do it better. Then there's the fact that MNK and BLM are encumbered by mechanics way more than other DPS and have a higher mechanics-related learning curve.

I have not played PvP in a long time so maybe this has changed but MNK were absolutely HORRIBLE in PvP. I don't even want to talk about it.

Well you can't direct that to Odowla. We've had our disagreements but for the linked spreadsheets of top parses he/she's the top parsing monk AND ninja. I don't think even discussing whether it's worth bringing a monk is productive anyways, you can bring any class and clear content, including summoners. And I doubt developers really care about balancing classes in terms of speed runs, developers always do as little as they can -- if content can be cleared with any class even if somewhat slower, to them there's no problem that needs addressing.

Rather, I think the point I make and that more people should adhere to, and developers often seek in terms of feedback, is whether they enjoy the class as is, and what might frustrate them with the class. I think Monk numbers are plain fine, but the quality of life of playing a monk outside a Coil static are significant. A bad tank flipping the boss around all the time, randomly dragging him across the room are certain things bound to frustrate any monk.

In open world or leveling, you are at a disadvantage to other classes due to the greased lightning mechanic, you gotta ramp up all the time where classes frontload their damage. And it's pretty headscratching when you do the same single target damage as other melee DPS, but they have better burst and less playstyle restrictions. So instead of buffing numbers for single target significantly, why not just address the deficiencies? Look at arm of the destroyer and rock breaker, and their TP costs. Look at Howling Fist's cooldown. Look at shoulder tackle's cooldown and range. Quality of life stuff. They don't really buff standstill DPS much but increasing greased lightning to 20 seconds duration as well would be a nice quality of life increase.

And while we're at a discussions of playstyle and aesthetics, I wish they would spiff up monk animations. Ninjas get geysers, fire explosions, quicksand, the ninjutsu kanji. Monk animations are pretty bland, they could integrate more in terms of Chakra and buddhist imagery, more lotus flowers and do something interesting with the fists, including improving fists of wind. And while we could argue monk is the plain martial artist, even the ninja's melee animations are just as much if not more athletic. Shoulder tackle could function more like a flying kick for effect.

[pandabearcat]

I'd bring a monk because their dragon kick is so awesome looking.

Idea: as monks stack up greased lightning their attacks start showing after images, since they're punching so fast =o